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Japanese and Allied Air Forces in the Far East Please use this forum to discuss the Air War in the Far East.

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  #1  
Old 4th December 2019, 10:53
BruceMk11 BruceMk11 is offline
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Operation Ironclad claims

According to David Brown in 'Carrier Operations in WWII Vol 1 The Royal Navy', apart from the six Vichy a/c claimed destroyed by 881 Sqn in early May '42, 11 probables were also claimed.

Who were the probables awarded to? And the Martlet pilot of 881 lost in combat on the 6/5/42?

Cheers,

Bruce
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Old 5th December 2019, 03:47
Tom Semenza Tom Semenza is offline
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Re: Operation Ironclad claims

Bruce,

As you probably already know, the six claims by 881 are found in Dust Clouds in the Middle East and no probables are mentioned. The only other claim I have found is by Mid.(A) Andrew Cameron Lindsay, RNVR of 881 for an unidentified twin engine aircraft damaged on 6 May 42 at 06:00 [per Sturtivant in Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939 to 1945].

Also from Sturtivant, B Flight of 800 Sqn. destroyed 3 MS.406s and 4 Potez 63s on the ground at Diego Suarez on 5 May.

I have not found any fatalities for 881 on that date or during that period. The only FAA fatalities on 6 May at Madagascar were a crew of an 829 Swordfish [Sturtivant and CWGC website].

Regards,
Tom
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Old 5th December 2019, 12:45
Leendert Leendert is offline
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Re: Operation Ironclad claims

Indeed, not on 6 May but on 7 May a Martlet shot down, but pilot safe. In Dust Clouds no name mentioned of FAA pilot either....

Regards,
Leendert
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Old 5th December 2019, 13:04
twocee twocee is offline
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Re: Operation Ironclad claims

Ray Sturtivant's book names the 7 May pilot as Lt. L.A. Hordern, shot down by an M406. The serial number was unidentified.
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Old 5th December 2019, 14:15
BruceMk11 BruceMk11 is offline
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Re: Operation Ironclad claims

Thanks guys. I do have a copy of Dust Clouds, albeit buried in a box somewhere...

Hordern was an Aussie; he later commanded 896 and 881 Sqns and got a DSC.

I thought the combat with the M406s was the day before the Po 63s?
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Old 5th December 2019, 14:18
BruceMk11 BruceMk11 is offline
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Re: Operation Ironclad claims

The revised edition of Sturtivant's book may shed more light on the claims and dates of this short-lived campaign.

I believe it to be possibly coming out next year.
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Old 5th December 2019, 15:14
bearoutwest bearoutwest is offline
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Re: Operation Ironclad claims

There's a little written in the Osprey Aces volume on the Morane 406. Preview via google books - link below:
https://books.google.com.au/books?id...ochine&f=false


I've tried to add a screenshot for quick reference. Can't seem to attach .png files. Anyway refer above, page 58.

...geoff
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Old 5th December 2019, 15:21
twocee twocee is offline
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Re: Operation Ironclad claims

This is from the Admiralty wartime publication "Fleet Air Arm":

"On the morning of the 7th May the Martlet patrol saw two Morane fighters approaching from the southwest. The leader of the section attacked the first Morane head on. His aircraft was hit in the wings and engine , and he forced-landed in the water off one of the beaches......Meanwhile the second Martlet had followed his leader into the attack, but seeing two more Moranes following him he turned and shot down one of them. The pilots of the Martlet section which was flying above as top cover ,seeing the dogfight below them, dived and shot down the three remaining Moranes."

Strangely, it does not name the pilots of the first section but lists the claims of the second: Lt. C.C. Tomkinson (1) and Lt. J. Waller (2), and also mentions that Tomkinson claimed a Potez 63 the previous day.
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Old 6th December 2019, 10:43
BruceMk11 BruceMk11 is offline
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Re: Operation Ironclad claims

Thanks Geoff. Interesting but adds to the confusion too. Was it Hordern or Cockburn shot down on the 7th??

I'll have to chase up a copy George, been meaning to for ages.

Cheers
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Old 6th December 2019, 11:59
madaroums madaroums is offline
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Re: Operation Ironclad claims

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leendert View Post
Indeed, not on 6 May but on 7 May a Martlet shot down, but pilot safe. In Dust Clouds no name mentioned of FAA pilot either....

Regards,
Leendert
This Martlet was probably shot down by Commandant François Leonetti belonging to Escadrille de chasse n°565, who later on, was shot down by another Martlet. He bailed out and was catched as POW suffering light burns.

Best regards
Franck
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