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  #231  
Old 15th March 2023, 10:23
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1233

354. This is probably an aircraft of Kommando Nowotny. Ofw. Helmut Baudach stands beside an Me 262 that appears to have on its nose a "white 6" or a "white 8". It has splotches of dark camouflage down to its wing roots as on "white 2". Note the high demarcation on the engine nacelles.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1234

355. Manfred Jurleit on p. 50 of Strahljäger Me 262 im Einsatz, (1995), identifies this photo as a frame from the cine camera of the P-51 flown by 1st Lt. James W. Kenney of the 357th FG who took pictures of an empty Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 110404 'white 7" after Oblt. Schall bailed out on 8 November 1944 over Quakenbrück due to engine flame-out during combat. To my eye there is no evidence of a fire in W.Nr 110404.
This aircraft, then, is definitely an Me 262 from Kommando Nowotny and the photo confirms the lack of a narrow yellow band and the overall dark camouflage down to the wing roots. Note the high demarcation on the engine nacelles.

Last edited by Karoband; 15th March 2023 at 11:28.
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  #232  
Old 15th March 2023, 10:31
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1235

356. In this photo, the werknummer 110371 can be barely made out. According to Dan O'Connell, p.72, "A report by Kraus dated 16 December stated that this aircraft, while on assignment with Kdo. Nowotny had radio difficulties due to fuel overflow leaking onto the equipment. After Kdo. Nowotny was disbanded, it was assigned to III./EJG 2 at Lechfeld ..." While it has no nose numeral, it has the characteristics of a Kommando Nowotny camouflage.
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  #233  
Old 22nd March 2023, 09:53
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1236

357. This photograph shows Me 262 A-2a "9K+YH". It is one of the earliest aircraft of 1./KG 51, mentioned on p. 162 of Jan Horn's Das Flurschaden Geschwader with Ltn. Wilhelm Batel flying a reichsweitflug on 20 August 1944 at Lechfeld. Like W.Nr. 130179 "black F", it has no white gun rectangle, suggesting that it may come from the 130xxx Series.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1237


358. Like W.Nr. 130179, "white Y" has a diagonal line on its canopy used to indicate the proper dive angle on early KG 51 Me 262s.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1238

359. A port view of the nose shows that "white Y" had two early ETC 503 bomb racks possibly numbered "85".


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1239

360. The basic Me 262 camouflage in early 1944 was RLM 74 and RLM 75 greys above undersides of RLM 76 white-blue. On "white Y", KG 51 has added a meander , on top of the greys, of dark greens for summer colour. This will become a common practice for KG 51 aircraft.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1240

361. In this head-on photo, the dark meander below the starboard gun port matches that in #360. The same wide tyres can be seen.
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  #234  
Old 29th March 2023, 10:32
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1241

362. This is a very early Me 262 A-2a jet bomber. It characteristically has only two MK 108 cannon with the two upper gunports faired over. This example has two ETC 503 bomb racks from FW 190s adapted with wooden bases. The nose cone almost certainly has a yellow cap with a white ring behind it, making it an aircraft of 3./KG 51. The background suggests this picture was taken in summer 1944.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1242

363. It almost seems that this aircraft has been given a replacement wing with fresh putty at the wing roots. The camouflage on the wings seem to be a splinter pattern of a dark green with a lighter brown violet, while the fuselage had original RLM 74 and 75 greys above the RLM 76 white-blue. Then the nose was given an almost solid overcoat of the dark green which turns into a mottle for the remainder of the fuselage and tail.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1243

364. In this photo, there seems to be a yellow letter outlined in white immediately behind the balkenkreuz, perhaps an "I" or an "L". Both aircraft seem to have a black werknummer on the fuselage below the port horizontal stabilizer seen in similar manner on W.Nr. 130017 and W.Nr. 130018. Curiously, both aircraft rudders are white. Note the diagonal line on the canopy similar to KG 51's "9K+YH" and "black F".
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  #235  
Old 5th April 2023, 10:20
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1244

365. According to Dan O'Connell, Me 262 Production Log, p. 113: "On 9 January 1945 Oblt. Paul Birnkraut of 1./FAGr. 5 who had been assigned to Messerschmitt as an Einflieger, ferried this aircraft from Memmingen. He took off at 16:35 and arrived at Leipheim at 16:45. With bomb-racks installed it was used in bomb-dropping trials."
On the tail of this aircraft, the werknummer 110813 can be made out and beneath the horizontal stabilizer a red "S" signified that this Me 262 must not be flown faster than 800 km/h. due to structural deficiencies.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1245

366. In this picture a ground crew is using a jack to lift an SD 250 bomb up to the starboard bomb-rack.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1249

367. Here it takes a ground crew of five men to maneuver the bomb hooks into the Messerschmitt-designed Wikingerschiff bomb-rack.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1247

This photo shows that W.Nr. 110813 with its bombs attached is a Me 262 A-1a/Jabo as this aircraft carried four MK 108 cannon, made possible by improved landing gear support.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1248

369. With bombs attached, W.Nr. 110813 taxiied out to Leipheim's snow-covered runway.

Last edited by Karoband; 5th April 2023 at 11:44.
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  #236  
Old 12th April 2023, 11:13
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1253

370. On 25 February 1945, Ofw. Hermann Wieczorek of 2./K.G. 51 belly landed Me 262 A-2a W.Nr. 110613 "9K+DK" near Münster due to "feindeinwirkung" (enemy-action). These photos show the recovery team dismantling the Me 262 and placing it aboard a flatbed trailer so that it could be taken by road to a repair depot.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1254

371. Another such photo of W.Nr. 110613 gives a good view of the camouflage in which the wellens of the fuselage match those on detached wing component. Note the single lower MK 108 cannon in the gun bay and the single, subdued white gun rectangle below. Spray from the wellen obscures parts of the balkenkreuz on the wing, but not the one on the fuselage.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1255

372. This cropping of the above photograph shows a black centered hakenkreuz similar to that of the Me 262 A-1a/U3s converted at Eger, Czechoslovakia. However, I can see no werknummer on the fin, either above or below the horizontal stabilizer. There is a subdued "K" behind the "D", but it is not in the usual stark black. Also, the
usual red tip with a thin white band is missing on the tail. Unfortunately there is no view of the nose in either picture.
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  #237  
Old 13th April 2023, 22:42
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Choco1961 Choco1961 is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

Hi Karoband, why can't I see the pictures while clicking on the link? I have a valid user account and able to post or reply... sad to see that I have no rights to open the picture links.... Any idea? Thanks!
Harry
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  #238  
Old 19th April 2023, 11:17
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1256

373. The Me 262 seen here was "found disassembled in Northern Germany (Diepholz or Nordholz airfield) by Canadian troops", O'Connell, p. 83. This poor image shows a good view of the derelict flatbed trailer and its hitch used by the recovery team.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1257

374. In this case, both components of the wing remained attached together and the entire wing was loaded onto the flatbed and then held vertical by steel poles in the loops along the side of the trailer. Note how close in tone is the shade of this RLM 76 white-blue to the RLM 21 white of the balkenkreuz.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1258

375. This view shows similarities with Me 262 A-2a W.Nr. 110613. Both fuselages have the same wellen pattern of two dark colours over a base of RLM 76. However, while missing its horizontal stabilizer, upper fin and rudder, this Me 262 has its werknummer, 110506, in the same position as the wellen covered Me 262 A-1a/U3s from Eger, Czechoslovakia. The wing balkenkreuz, like that of 110613, has been in places oversprayed by the dark camo. The white "I" is too far forward to be a missing tape covering the tail joint. And there seems to be an "H", in the same shade as the "K" of 110613, behind the "I". Jan Horn, in Das Flurschaden Geschwader, makes no reference to 110506.

Last edited by Karoband; 19th April 2023 at 13:15.
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  #239  
Old 19th April 2023, 11:30
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1260

376. In this photo, two MK 108 cannon and two white gun rectangles can be seen. The application of a different camouflage pattern to that of 110613 on the upper wing is seen to good advantage. It has a single dark wellen over a lighter base that is not RLM 76.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1259

377. On the fuselage the wellen pattern of two different dark colours over the base of RLM 76 is similar to that of W.Nr. 500251, an Me 262 A-1a/U3 converted and repainted at Eger. However, a careful study of the werknummern listed on pp. 26-30 of Brown, etal., Messerschmitt Me 262 Production & Arado Ar 234 Final Operations, (JaPo, 2012), of the log books of the test pilots at Eger, reveals no reference to either 110613 or 110506.
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  #240  
Old 26th April 2023, 10:42
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

This and the next two postings show Me 262s of III./K.G. 54 at Neuburg am Donau in preparation for a sortie, supposedly in March 1945. Most of these photos were first published in Siegfried Radtke's Kampfgeschwader 54 von der Ju 52 Zur Me 262 Ein Chronik ..., (Schild Verlag, 1990).

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1261

378. This is an Me 262 A-1a of III./K.G. 54. The white nose cap represents the 7th Staffel and the yellow band behind the black represents the 3rd Gruppe of the Geschwader. Note the heavy wellen white sprayed over the dark camouflage for winter conditions.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1262

379. Radtke, p.239, captions this photo as "März 1945, Neuburg/Donau. Ofw. Friedr. Gentzsch, 7. Staffel, Umschullehrer auf Me 262". Gentzsch, an instructor pilot, stands in front of an aircraft of the gruppenstab of III./K.G. (J) 54. In this case the nose cap is green with the yellow band behind the black. Note the yellow diagonal stripe on the starboard fuselage under the canopy of the cockpit. The unpainted forward cowling of the engine nacelle is also noteworthy. This is a good view of where the cord from the portable generator plugs into the fuselage electrical system.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1263

380. Gentzsch sits in the cockpit of Me 262 A-1a "B3+BC" of Stab III./K.G. (J) 54 with a green "B" painted on the nose wheel door, behind which is the unpainted cowling. The port cowling is camouflaged to match its nacelle.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1264

381. In this photo the "BC" in green can be seen behind the balkenkreuz and there is a yellow diagonal stripe below the canopy on the port side as well. Note the lack of a "Totenkopf" wappen.
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