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  #271  
Old 5th July 2023, 10:19
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1395

422. This is the original photograph that was posted on eBay by Historical-Media.com a couple of years ago. For those of us who live at 44o N Lat. in Canada, we recognize that the glint of the sun low on the horizon behind the clouds, the denuded deciduous trees and the overnight frozen ground water places the time of day as shortly after sunrise and the time of year as mid winter. For a photographer to be up so early with so many ground crew involved usually indicated this photo was taken prior to an important mission.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1396

423. After tweaking, a few more features become apparent. Both aircraft are carrying a single SC 250 general purpose blast bomb on the starboard bomb rack. This and the nose and tail markings indicate these are Me 262s of KG 51. Note the camo netting draped across the nose of the aircraft on the left.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1397

424. This enlarged cropping shows the nose cap and tail tip to be yellow with a narrow white band in front of/above a black demarcation band. The white band signified I. Gruppe and the yellow signified 3. Staffel. When you add the fact that a yellow "A" can be seen on the nose wheel door, the identity of this Me 262 is "9K+AL". Also noteworthy was I. Gruppe's custom at this time of to encircle the lower gun port with the Staffel colour.
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  #272  
Old 5th July 2023, 10:30
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

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Originally Posted by Karoband View Post
424. This enlarged cropping shows the nose cap and tail tip to be yellow with a narrow white band in front of/above a black demarcation band. The white band signified I. Gruppe and the yellow signified 3. Staffel. When you add the fact that a yellow "A" can be seen on the nose wheel door, the identity of this Me 262 is "9K+AL". Also noteworthy was I. Gruppe's custom at this time of to encircle the lower gun port with the Staffel colour.
From ULTRA in February 1945:
CX/MSS/R. 450(C),6
Strength return stamped 1945/2/2:
Taking over AL 110920, W.Nr. not previously reported.
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  #273  
Old 5th July 2023, 10:37
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1398

425. This is the original of one of the accompanying photos in the eBay posting. Note the same camo netting on the aircraft mid-right as that in #422.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1399

426. Jan Horn, on page 256 of Dad Flurschaden-Geschwader, (2010), captions this photograph as:
"Der 1. Januar 1945 ist ein frostklarer Morgen. Die Me 262 sind bereits an die Startbahn gezogen und fertig zum Angriff gegen die allierten Plätze Gilze-Rijen, Eindhoven und Herzogenbusch." The target for 3./KG 51 was Herzogenbusch.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1401

427. This is another original photo posted by Historical-Media.Com.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1400

428. This is a tweaked version of a different copy of the above photo. Here Me 262 A-2a "9K+BL" is returning from perhaps the same mission, its Wikingerschiff bomb racks empty.
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  #274  
Old 5th July 2023, 10:40
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Beale View Post
From ULTRA in February 1945:
CX/MSS/R. 450(C),6
Strength return stamped 1945/2/2:
Taking over AL 110920, W.Nr. not previously reported.
Thank you, Nick!
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  #275  
Old 19th July 2023, 11:00
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1407

429. This is one of the photos posted by scalemodels.ru that were taken from a film made of ground crew towing an Me 262 A-2a out of a line up using an Sd.Kfz. 2 Kettenkrad.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1408

430. This close-up view of the rear fuselage reveals that the aircraft being towed has a kennzeichen of "9K+BH white B" which means it belongs to 1./KG 51.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1409

431. This view of the nose is consistent with an aircraft of 1. Staffel, KG 51. The nose cone actually has two colours in front of the black demarcation band. The white cone represents 1. Staffel, while the thin white band behind it represents I. Gruppe. Note the staffel colour surrounding the lower gun port.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1410

432. Most authors ascribe the werknummer 170096 to "9K+BH". However, Jan Horn in Dad Flurschaden-Geschwader, (2010), states that W.Nr. 170096 was "9K+BL yellow B" citing Flugzeugstarke for 4 and 6 January 1945 on p. 222.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1411

433. This screenshot from the film is the tail of "9K+BH". You can decide for yourself if the final digit of the werknummer is a "6".
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  #276  
Old 2nd August 2023, 09:59
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1414

434. This is an enlargement of an interesting photo posted on modelforum.cz in January of this year. My Microsoft Edge translation gives the caption as: "Original photo of the Me 262 from Ruzyne. Published in Nebenad Protectoratem, page 555."

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1415

435. I have two questions about this picture:

1. Why is there what appears to me to be a tape measure in the middle of the picture?

and

2. Is this a diorama?
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  #277  
Old 20th August 2023, 10:50
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

Interesting ME262 on Ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/15572444696...m_medium=email
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  #278  
Old 20th August 2023, 16:11
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

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Originally Posted by Choco1961 View Post
Hi Harry,

Wow! Thank you for the picture. It is a great find.

Unfortunately, the caption on the back is spurious. A novice pilot, on 7 December 1944, Hauptmann Helmut Brocke, Stafü of 4./KG 51 in Me 262 A-2a W.Nr. 500010 "9K+KM" was probably on his first training flight at Schwabisch-Hall. On his landing approach, at low level with the landing gear extended, he banked hard left and side-slipped into the ground.

Jan Horn, in Das Flurschaden-Geschwader, (2010), p. 195 quotes an account by the gruppenkommandeur der II. Gruppe, on the crash. Loosely translated, one sentence says, "The Me 262 was about 500 m east of the runway in an open field.

best regards,

Jim
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  #279  
Old 20th August 2023, 17:07
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karoband View Post
Hi Harry,

Wow! Thank you for the picture. It is a great find.

Unfortunately, the caption on the back is spurious. A novice pilot, on 7 December 1944, Hauptmann Helmut Brocke, Stafü of 4./KG 51 in Me 262 A-2a W.Nr. 500010 "9K+KM" was probably on his first training flight at Schwabisch-Hall. On his landing approach, at low level with the landing gear extended, he banked hard left and side-slipped into the ground.

Jan Horn, in Das Flurschaden-Geschwader, (2010), p. 195 quotes an account by the gruppenkommandeur der II. Gruppe, on the crash. Loosely translated, one sentence says, "The Me 262 was about 500 m east of the runway in an open field.

best regards,

Jim
A photo of an aircraft of II./KG 51 is a rarity but I am unsure that this one was W.Nr. 500010 because ULTRA CX/MSS/R392(C),27 says:
Personnel and QM report 7/12:

(Words smudged) a/c firing practice HESSENTAL jamming of steering unit in the air (smudge) caught fire on impact, pitot (piece torn away).

SILBER ((Me 262)) A2, Works No. 500010, 9K+KM, 99%.
The aircraft in the picture does not look like it has been on fire unless any fire was confined to the forward fuel tank, in the missing/detached nose section.
I do not know Jan Horn's source for his information. Brocke's death registration card only says that he died at »Fliegerhorst Schwäb.-Hall-Hessental« but does not give the circumstances.

I agree about the caption. If the two aircraft were shot down while taking off, it is odd that are they so close together and facing in opposite directions.
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  #280  
Old 20th August 2023, 17:14
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

Thank you, Nick. Grundmann's account is emphatic that there was no fire.
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