Stab/NJG 4 losses on 19 December 1944

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Franek,
There are many claims of him against Wellingtons as well B-25. Do you have any information on the Russian side? He seems to have claimed some DB-3 also. I am currently working on his victories also, but as I put before, too much complicated without OFICIAL information. It would be so easy if we could cross-check the oficial information and take our own deductions...BUT, alas, this is almost unfindable...
Will keep in touch...

[Erich]

Adriano, Hans never served on duty flying Moskito-jagd in NJGr 10, that was Fritz E. Krause who had something like 10 kills to his credit he became leader in NJG 11, this is fact !! He flew both the Fw 190A with FuG 217 N and then later the Bf 109G-6/AS, several different a/c by the way on the Moskito-jagd before flying G-14/AS intercepting heavy Lancasters and finally the dreded night ground attack missions in later 1945

E ~

[David P. Williams]

Adriano,

Looking through the log book he has at least 4 claims against Russian DB-3s when he was operatingfrom Parndorf. I have a victory list supplied by Krause and i will give details of this when i have it to hand.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Erich and all,
Sorry for MY ERROR. You are correct, Hans Krause did not fly with NJGr 10. I made a mistake checking the information on Gebhard Aders´book German Night Fighter Force 1917-45´s Mosquito claims list. The claim of a Mosquito on the night of 7/8 July 1944 was credited to Olt Krause, so I ASSUMED they were the same.
PLEASE accept my appologies and the disturb I caused this thread on a bad interpretation!
Thanks ERICH!
Yours
Adriano

[Andy Fletcher]

Originally Posted by David P. Williams

I have other papers of his, i will check them tomorrow and come back to you over the weekend with further details. I'm afraid i dont know of Josef Kause, i only ever met Hans Krause. All the best,

Hi David,

Hope you don't mind me butting in on the thread, but you may be able to answer the following.

1. Could you tell me what date Hans Krause served with 1./NJG 3 until and was he then posted straight to 6./NJG 101.

2. Was he St.Kap. 6./NJG 101 until he became Gr.Kdr. I./NJG 4 or did he serve as Gr.Kdr. II./NJG 101 prior to serving with I./NJG 4.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, Adriano (and all others)

Firstly, doesn't seem that anyone answered fully the question you asked, namely for the losses of Stab/N.J.G.4 on these dates.

There is in fact an inconsistency in your question - you ask for details of the losses of the Stab/N.J.G.4 (which would be the Geschwaderstab of the unit, in the reporting context a separate entity) and then you look especially for the data on (if existing) the Gruppenkommandeur of I./N.J.G.4. Any information with regards to loss/damage where he could have been involved would have been reported under the unit designation I./N.J.G.4, not Stab/N.J.G.4.

OK, so to my contribution to the discussion:

The Geschwaderstab of N.J.G.4 (Stab/N.J.G.4) does not seem to have experienced combat losses (personnel or aircraft) on any of the mentioned dates.

The I./N.J.G.4 had one aircraft damaged on the 18.12.1944. The aircraft was on a combat sortie, but it was not involved in any kind of combat resulting in this damage (in my opinion this would be due to a technical error, or simply a landing or take-off accident). The crew was not hurt, and the damage higher than or equal to 10% and lower than or equal to the report standard of 50%).

Further, they had one aircraft reported as being destroyed on 19.12.1944. Again, this was on an operational sortie, but not due to battle damage. This time a crew member, a non-officer, was killed in the crash, and thus a Namentliche Verlustemeldung giving the details of this crash should exist.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Andreas,

Finally...after a BIG mistake I wrote, here we are on the track of the original thread again.
Well, as I told, I received back in 1999, some missions descriptions by Hans Krause, Gruppenkommandeur of I/NJG 4 in German. I got them translated these last weeks, as I do understand only a few words of Gerrman.
Hans Krause describes a mission he flew on the night of 19 December 1944 ( I do not know if 18/19 or 19/20 December - OK, this is why I put on the thread information on those two nights ).
He describe an air-to-ground attack with his 20mm guns on a US or Allied convoy of trucks that had their lights ON. After two or three passes, he was hit by AA fire and broke combat, trying to evade at very low level. He was hit twice ( from his description ). He then climbed to 21,000 feet amongst high clouds and become lost, as most his radio and compass was hit by AA fire. He flew guiding himself by the moon and ORDERED his crew to bale out with him. They landed together somewhere in Germany ( had to check the files on my other computer for that later ).
This is the information I had from him on his own words. He flew with the STAB of I/NJG 4 on the third wave of aircraft that took off that night to attack vehicles.
Do you have ANY DATA about I/NJG 4 losses that night?

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, Adriano

Sorry, but I haven't...

The I. Gruppe books losses for the 18th and 19th as described in my earlier post, the next ones are booked for the 21st.

On the 21st it seems that I. Gruppe lost two aircraft in combat, these are however sorted into category 4: 'auf Feindflug durch Bordwaffenbeschuss total mit Feindbeobachtung' - or in my bad translation 'total loss by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational sortie'.

It is not totally unlikely that the clerks have sorted this into the wrong category, or even that the unit at the time of the report attributed this to opposition in the air, but in that case the incident must have taken place after midnight, thus on the 21st, even if the sortie started before midnight (we have had some of these before, where the take-off in reality was on one date and the resulting crash on the day after).

Also - it seems that no personell were injured in these two incidents, which would fit into the description you have of the incident, a total aircraft loss, but no injury to personnel.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Laurent Rizzotti]

The "NJG claim" book by Foreman, Parry and Matthews listed all claims listed by Tony Wood for Hans/Josef Krause of NJG 101 as for the same man, Hans Krause.

By the way, this book is only listing 27 kills for Hans Krause with NJG 3 and NJG 101. From the above I guess the 28th kill was scored with NJG 4 in 1945 but does anyone have more details ?

[David P. Williams]

Hi,

According to the details given to me by Krause he joined I./NJG 3 on 1st November 1941 at Vechta as the units Technical Officer until 22nd April 1943.

On 23rd April 1943 he joined the 6th Staffel of 6./NJG 101 as its Staffelkapitan. He was then posted to I./NJG 4 as its Gruppenkommandeur on 6th December 1944.

His 27th and 28th Victories were achieved on 22.11.44 against a Liberator and a Wellington in Planquadrate 57 SL in South East Europe.

Hope this answers some of the questions posed. All the best, David.