Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19th May 2012, 06:12
Johannes Johannes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 988
Johannes will become famous soon enough
Rudolf Linz 8./Jg5 1942/1943

Hi Guys

Rudolf Linz is alleged to have made seventy claims, trouble is that the micro films earlier type for Jg5 do not seem to have survived the war!
This leaves log-books, Victory boards, the micro film type listing only date/time(i.e no pilot name), and the A.S.M toye micro film. I have managed to piece together his first four claims as an Unteroffizier:-

13th June 1942 Hurricane Murmaschi area 1325 hrs Nr.1
23rd June 1942 Hurricane 0815 hrs Nr.2
28th June 1942 Pe-2 1640 hrs Nr.3
7th July 1942 Hurricane 1720 hrs Nr.4

Also have found on the micro films from 23rd September 1943 until 3rd September 1944 another forty-seven claims, plus his alleged two claims on 9th February 1945.

The micro film for 8./Jg5 without pilots names/type e.t.c has another fifteen that I have been unable to put a name to in the summer of 1942:-

12th July 1942 1422 hrs, 1423 hrs and 1428 hrs.
6th August 1942 0856 hrs, 0906 hrs and 1102 hrs.
10th August 1942 1843 hrs, 1847 hrs, 1850 hrs x2, and 1852 hrs.
13th August 1942 1505 hrs, 1506hrs x2 1515 hrs, and 1520 hrs.

Linz could very likely have claimed some of these, but even if he claimed all of them we are still short of seventy!

Can anybody attribute these to him, or/plus can anybody please look into the possibility that he may have been an instructor anytime between the Autumn or 1942 until the Autumn of 1943 as I know amazingly little about this pilot, in fact there are 8./Jg5 claims prior to those above that I cannot attribute a name to, and as he is so obscure there is always the possibility that I have numbered his first four incorrectly.

earlier one's:-

3rd April 1942 1114hrs
26th April 1942 0950hrs , and 0951 hrs.
9th May 1942 1450 hrs, and 1451 hrs.
10th May 1942 1712 hrs, and 1835 hrs.
17th May 1942 0912 hrs.
28th May 1942 1637 hrs.
2nd June 1942 1037 hrs, 1040 hrs, 1320 hrs, 1322 hrs, and 1323 hrs.
14th June 1942 1715 hrs.
15th June 1942 1140 hrs, 1141 hrs, and 1143 hrs.
17th June 1942 0932 hrs, 0933 hrs, 0934 hrs, 0935hrs, and 0938 hrs( I think Hermann Segatz claimed one of these)
23rd June 1942 0815 hrs, and 0820 hrs,
29th June 1942 0137 hrs, and 0142 hrs.
7th July 1942 1450 hrs, and 1728 hrs.

Grateful for any assistance with this. with 6./Jg5 I matched the date/time only micro films with the Staffels Victory Board, assume a similar Board existed for 8./Jg5, but have never seen any photo's of it.

Kind Regards

Johannes
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19th May 2012, 12:56
Kapper Kapper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 128
Kapper is on a distinguished road
Re: Rudolf Linz 8./Jg5 1942/1943

Johannes

Using Dr Prein JFV Vol 9/III and the internet T Woods files - I have the following

12th July 1942 1422 hrs, 1423 hrs and 1428 hrs.
12.07.42 Ltn. Hans-Joachim Bahr: 8 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - 14.22 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
12.07.42 Fw. Heinz Beyer: 12 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - 14.23 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
12.07.42 Uffz. Schrader: 1 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - 14.28 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B


6th August 1942 0856 hrs, 0906 hrs and 1102 hrs.
06.08.42 Uffz. Josef Kaiser: 4 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ S.E. Herzberg: at 1.500 m. 08.56 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr. 135 – ?B
06.08.42 Uffz. Josef Kaiser: 5 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ S.E. Herzberg: at 20-10 m. 09.06 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr. 136 – ?B
06.08.42 Uffz. Josef Kaiser: 6 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ S.W. Murmansk: at 400 m. 11.02 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr. 137 – ?B


10th August 1942 1843 hrs, 1847 hrs, 1850 hrs x2, and 1852 hrs.
10.08.42 Oblt. Hermann Segatz: 27 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ 20 854: at 800 m. 18.43 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 138 – ?B
10.08.42 Oblt. Hermann Segatz: 28 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ 20 854: at 500 m. 18.47 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 139 – ?B
10.08.42 Uffz. Jakob Norz: 2 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ 20 854: at 500 m. 18.48 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 140 – ?B
10.08.42 Uffz. Josef Kaiser: 7 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ 20 854: at 900 m. 18.50 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 141 – ?B
10.08.42 Uffz. Heinrich Bartels: 13 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ 20 854: at 500 m. 18.50 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 142 – ?B
10.08.42 Uffz. Josef Kaiser: 8 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ 20 854: at 700 m. 18.52 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 143 – ?B


13th August 1942 1505 hrs, 1506hrs x2 1515 hrs, and 1520 hrs.
13.08.42 Uffz. Heinrich Bartels: 17 8./JG 5 I-153 £ 30 784: at 3.500 m. 15.06 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 148 – ?B
13.08.42 Uffz. Josef Kaiser: 9 8./JG 5 I-153 £ 30 784: at 3.500 m. 15.06 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 149 – ?B
13.08.42 Uffz. Kurt Dylewski: 2 8./JG 5 I-153 £ 30 771: at 3.500 m. 15.06 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 150 – ?B
13.08.42 Uffz. Heinrich Bartels: 18 8./JG 5 Curtiss P-40 £ 30 783: at 3.500 m. 15.15 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 151 – ?B
13.08.42 Uffz. Heinrich Bartels: 19 8./JG 5 Curtiss P-40 £ 30 773: at 3.700 m. 15.20 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 152 – ?B


For the second lot I have;


3rd April 1942 1114hrs
03.04.42 Oblt. Hermann Segatz: 18 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - PQ 37 Ost/2085 11.14 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B

26th April 1942 0950hrs , and 0951 hrs.
26.04.42 Uffz. Heinrich Bartels: 3 (1st EF) 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - Ura Guba 09.50 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
26.04.42 Fw. Oskar Timm: 1 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - Ura Guba 09.51 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B

9th May 1942 1450 hrs, and 1451 hrs.
09.05.42 Fw. Heinz Beyer: 1 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - Murmaschi 14.50 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
09.05.42 Fw. Oskar Timm: 2 8./JG 5 MiG-3 £ - Murmaschi 14.51 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B

10th May 1942 1712 hrs, and 1835 hrs.
10.05.42 Uffz. Heinrich Bartels: 4 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - Motowki-Bucht 17.12 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
The 18.35 claim unknown?

17th May 1942 0912 hrs.
17.05.42 Fw. Heinz Beyer: 3 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - Wajda-Guba 09.12 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B

28th May 1942 1637 hrs.
28.05.42 Fw. Heinz Beyer: 4 8./JG 5 MiG-3 £ - 35 km SE Banak 06.37 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ? B
16.37 or 06.37?

2nd June 1942 1037 hrs, 1040 hrs, 1320 hrs, 1322 hrs, and 1323 hrs.
02.06.42 Ltn. Hans-Joachim Bahr: 3 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - E Motowski 10.37 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
02.06.42 Ltn. Hans-Joachim Bahr: 4 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - E Motowski 10.40 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
02.06.42 Oblt. Hermann Segatz: 19 8./JG 5 MiG-3 £ - Ura-Guba 13.20 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
02.06.42 Oblt. Hermann Segatz: 20 8./JG 5 MiG-3 £ - Ura-Guba 13.22 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
02.06.42 Fw. Heinz Beyer: 5 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - Ura-Guba 13.23 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B

14th June 1942 1715 hrs.
14.06.42 Oblt. Hermann Segatz: 21 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - Titowka 17.15 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B

15th June 1942 1140 hrs, 1141 hrs, and 1143 hrs.
15.06.42 Oblt. Hermann Segatz: 22 8./JG 5 MiG-3 £ - Wadja-Guba 11.40 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
15.06.42 Oblt. Hermann Segatz: 23 8./JG 5 MiG-3 £ - Wadja-Guba 11.41 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
15.06.42 Fw. Heinz Beyer: 7 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - Liza Bucht 11.43 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B

17th June 1942 0932 hrs, 0933 hrs, 0934 hrs, 0935hrs, and 0938 hrs( I think Hermann Segatz claimed one of these)
17.06.42 Oblt. Hermann Segatz: 24 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - W Schonguij 09.32 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
17.06.42 N.N. Ltn Hans-Joachim Bahr: 6 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - W Schonguij 09.33 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
17.06.42 Oblt. Hermann Segatz: 25 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - W Schonguij p.24 Murawski JG5 09.34 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
17.06.42 Ltn Hans-Joachim Bahr: 7 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - W Schonguij p.24 Murawski JG5 09.35 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
17.06.42 Uffz. Josef Kunz: 2 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - W Schonguij 09.38 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B

23rd June 1942 0815 hrs, and 0820 hrs,
23.06.42 Uffz. Rudolf Linz: 2 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - 08.15 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
23.06.42 Fw. Heinz Beyer: 8 8./JG 5 DB-3 £ - 08.20 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
This includes Linz - was there another? 6/JG5 claimed one at 08.15? ??

29th June 1942 0137 hrs, and 0142 hrs.
29.06.42 Fw. Heinz Beyer: 9 8./JG 5 I-61 £ - 01.37 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
29.06.42 Fw. Heinz Beyer: 10 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - 01.42 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B

7th July 1942 1450 hrs, and 1728 hrs.
07.07.42 Fw. Heinz Beyer: 11 8./JG 5 Curtiss P-40 £ - 14.50 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B
07.07.42 Uffz. Josef Kaiser: 3 8./JG 5 Hurricane £ - 17.28 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 9/III – ?B

As can bee seen there are only a few possivbilities.

Also in Eismeerjager vol 2 they have Linz making a claim 10 May 42 with 6/JG5, the JFV Series has one claim to an unknown pilot of II/JG5 on that day - a possibility?

Finally, I have 49 claims between the dates you mentioned, 2 more than you. The rest is a mystery to me and I cannot answer the training unit question.

Regards,

Craig...
__________________
There is always three sides to an argument, Your's, Theirs and the Truth. Sometimes the Truth is hard to find.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 21st May 2012, 07:06
Johannes Johannes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 988
Johannes will become famous soon enough
Re: Rudolf Linz 8./Jg5 1942/1943

Hi Graig

Thanks for getting back to me on Linz.

Silly me I hadn't filled in the DATE/TIME only micro films data for 8./Jg5 with the idividual pilot data I hold, and mine were a match to yours.

But that for 10th May 1942 1835 hrs, was actually 14th May 1942 1835 hrs, and by Heinz Beyer(Hurricane)

28th May 1942 it was 1637 hrs not 0637 hrs.

So there are only two claims for 8./Jg5 that I have not been able to but a name to, therefore regarding that for 10th May 1942 as not being Linz as there is no evidence that he flew for any other unit than 8./Jg5 until it's re-designation to 11./Jg5, then Linz claimed a minimum of fifty-three confirmed claims, but also a maximum of fifty-five confirmed claims, that for 28th June 1942 must have been unconfirmed!

As his claims for 9th February 1945 are known to have crashed, it's hard to say he commit to saying that his claimed followed the Jg5 tendacy for fraudulent claims, though his claim pattern would suggest so.

Seems he had a cheap Ritterkreuz.............but he did pay for it with his life!

Kind Regards

Johannes
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22nd May 2012, 00:19
odybvig odybvig is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 130
odybvig
Re: Rudolf Linz 8./Jg5 1942/1943

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johannes View Post
Hi Guys
plus his alleged two claims on 9th February 1945.

Johannes
Ehhh he was credited with two claims. Dead people seldom claims anything.
But it seems that 65 years later and with missing documentation, you know the truth about fraudulent claims.

Best from Norway
Olve Dybvig
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22nd May 2012, 07:33
Johannes Johannes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 988
Johannes will become famous soon enough
Re: Rudolf Linz 8./Jg5 1942/1943

Hi

Yes, his claims for 9th February 1945 would have had the documentation completed by another pilot, though they would never have actually been confirmed as the confirmation process took a year, assuming he actually did make these claims i.e the airbattle is well known, as are the British losses in it, I assume that somebody somewhere has found that it was Linz who made these two claims, otherwise it could have been another pilot, but I do have a complete list of the Luftwaffe claimers in this action........assuming it's correct.

Kind Regards

Johannes
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 23rd May 2012, 12:01
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 817
Nick Hector is on a distinguished road
Re: Rudolf Linz 8./Jg5 1942/1943

Regarding 6/JG 5 on 23rd June 1942, on my listing I have Rudolf Mueller claiming an I-16 that is said to have been 27 IAP's Starshiy Serzhant Mal'chenko KIA

HTH

Nick
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rudolf Zwesken Bart V. Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 16 9th September 2019 00:30
CO list of Schlacht Gruppen, 39-45 - looking for assistance. Evgeny Velichko Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 15 15th November 2013 12:29
Rudolf Hiltner, 5.ZG1 Karl Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 10 6th July 2009 19:54
Rudolf Wahn - III/StG 2 "Immelmann" mdejong Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 13th November 2008 20:38
Rudolf Bernd DKiG Andy Fletcher Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 25th October 2006 20:01


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net