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Pre-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation Please use this forum to discuss Military and Naval Aviation before the Second World War.

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  #1  
Old 20th May 2020, 15:28
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Photo Short Aircraft

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a very nice photo of Short Type184 serial 8084 transferred to France in 1916 at:


https://www.ebay.it/itm/Photo-franca...YAAOSwjl1ev7m1




https://www.ebay.it/itm/Photo-franca...0AAOSwEfdev7js

Regards,


Clint
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  #2  
Old 20th May 2020, 20:19
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: Photo Short Aircraft

Excellent find Clint

One can even see the c/n S.226.
Wonder what happened to it?

Lucien Morareau is very silent (can't find it indexed anywhere) so most likely it was tested and discarded.

Cheers
Stig
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  #3  
Old 20th May 2020, 20:30
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photo Short Aircraft

Stig,


I wonder if its significant that Sturtivant and Page in Royal Navy Aircraft Serials and Units 1911-1919 write transferred to the French Government, rather than to the French Navy?


How's your french. I could try posting a question on Aeroforums which might produce more information, though my french is limited.


Regards,


Clint
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  #4  
Old 20th May 2020, 20:44
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: Photo Short Aircraft

Well Clint

Starting with my French all I can say it is fortunate this forum is silent, speaking wise, since right now I believe our French friends have enough with the Corona virus. We don't need half the population laughing itself to death....

I believe any contracts between France and Britain were Government to Government so such wordings don't have to mean much really, but you have a point. France has always been masters in bringing out various odd institutions not belonging to any of the true military forces, but somewhere in a kind of limbo. So yes, the 184 could well have ended up within some testing place/unit run by something which at least I don't know anything about.

If you want to, yes please, put something up on the Aeroforums. It will at least save my face....

Cheers
Stig
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  #5  
Old 21st May 2020, 11:05
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photo Short Aircraft

Hello Stig,


Thanks to the helpful Paul Badre at Aerostories : http://www.aerostories.org/~aeroforums/forumnav/ I can now say why the two Short 8083 & 8084 do not appear in the index of Lucien Moreau's Les Aeronefs de l'Aviation Maritime. To whit they were army machines.


Using the link provided by Paul Badre http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escad...les_Cazaux.htm both photos I posted can be seen (in my defence they are from the same source as given by the seller, so are original). So both machines served with the Ecole de Tir Aérien at Cazaux.


Regards,


Clint
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  #6  
Old 21st May 2020, 11:35
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: Photo Short Aircraft

Thanks Clint

That was a surprise! Why on earth would the Army be training their pilots on all these floatplanes and seaplanes?

I can understand the reasoning behind having firing practice on a lake, but why use so many typical Naval aircraft? Some Naval aviators obviously passed the Cazaux school but most were Army pilots/observers, both French and American. Why not use Army aircraft (on wheels) to shoot up targets on the lake?

Both Shorts also seems to have at least been evaluated by the Navy before being discarded to the Army.

I wonder if all the sea/float planes which were used at Cazaux were taken from Naval orders or if the French Army ordered such aircraft as well?

Cheers
Stig
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Old 21st May 2020, 13:43
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photo Short Aircraft

Hi Stig,


I taske it that you have information indicating evaluation by the Navy for the two Shorts. Subsequent to your last post I've followed this up with Paul on Aerostories and he indicates that they went straight to the Aviation Militaire.


Regards,


Clint
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  #8  
Old 21st May 2020, 14:09
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: Photo Short Aircraft

OK Clint

Works for me. However the Albin Denis site (at least with a google translation)
says: These two seaplanes were supplied by England to the French government for evaluation in May 1916. (numbers N8083 and N8084 - manufactured by Shorts Brothers, Rochester). Not retained by naval aviation, they were used for a time by the shooting school for the towing of targets.
use by the Cazaux shooting school


Also the original French text says the same, but perhaps I am reading to much into such a sentence in the first place.

Cheers
Stig
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  #9  
Old 21st May 2020, 14:11
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photo Short Aircraft

Hi Stig,


Having seen that I don't find your reading unlikely.If something is not retained, well logically...



Regards,


Clint
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