Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #401  
Old 10th January 2013, 23:58
Cpt_Farrel Cpt_Farrel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 193
Cpt_Farrel is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Just commented on this in the photostream but I'll repeat it here, I rather believe WNF for three reasons:

1. Camouflage looks more like WNF than Erla
2. I believe that by the summer of 1944 Erla used the tall tails on their G-6's
3. The setup looks different from the photos I've seen from Erla taken in 1943.

Cheers! / Anders
Reply With Quote
  #402  
Old 11th January 2013, 00:01
Marc-André Haldimann's Avatar
Marc-André Haldimann Marc-André Haldimann is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2,086
Marc-André Haldimann is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

And last move for tonight: I've created a JGr 300 set in order to regroup all pictures known to me illustrating the effective application of the short horizontal black bar on the blue white blue RV bands, according to the order issued 26 April (!) 1945.

There are all told six different machines:

1. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. unknown "Gelbe 1", JGr 300, Germany, April 1945. Source: ebay.de.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625208099917

2. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 150 816 "Schwarze 4", JGr 300, Langensalza, June 1945. Source: LEMB Forum.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625208099917

3. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr 49x xxx "Schwarze 1", JGr. 300, Germany, May 1945. Source: Hildebrandt 1989, p. 3.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57632486398923

4. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. unknown "Gelbe 6", JGr 300, Neubiberg, Germany, May 1945. Source: Ebay auction.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57632486398923

5. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 49. .06 "Schwarzer Winkel", JGr 300, Germany, May 1945. Source: Ebay auction.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57632486398923

6. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. unknown, "Blaue 2", Fw. Josef Umminger, 16./JG 300 with JGr 300 horizontal bar, Buchau, 8 May 1945. Source: Collection Hesse, Luftwaffe im Focus Spezial no 3, Photo 60.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57632486398923

Looking for an other one;-))

Cheers
Marc
Reply With Quote
  #403  
Old 11th January 2013, 00:04
Marc-André Haldimann's Avatar
Marc-André Haldimann Marc-André Haldimann is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2,086
Marc-André Haldimann is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt_Farrel View Post
Just commented on this in the photostream but I'll repeat it here, I rather believe WNF for three reasons:

1. Camouflage looks more like WNF than Erla
2. I believe that by the summer of 1944 Erla used the tall tails on their G-6's
3. The setup looks different from the photos I've seen from Erla taken in 1943.

Cheers! / Anders
Many thanks Anders! I was ill at ease with Erla too, but the camouflage patterns between Erla and WNF at that time are too close for me to tell...

Cheers
Marc
Reply With Quote
  #404  
Old 11th January 2013, 00:30
Cpt_Farrel Cpt_Farrel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 193
Cpt_Farrel is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

About Bf109G-10 "Blaue 2" I believe 16./JG300 aircraft had indeed blue numerals but not with white outline. I believe the only staffel with a medium color numeral that has a white outline would be 11./JG300. If that's the case it's in other words an ex 11./JG300 a/c marked Green 2.
Reply With Quote
  #405  
Old 11th January 2013, 00:40
Marc-André Haldimann's Avatar
Marc-André Haldimann Marc-André Haldimann is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2,086
Marc-André Haldimann is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

You sure of that, Anders? If yes, I will correct the LiF caption;-))

Cheers
Marc
Reply With Quote
  #406  
Old 11th January 2013, 08:46
Cpt_Farrel Cpt_Farrel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 193
Cpt_Farrel is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

I would want to check through my references more but as I recall, neither I nor IV gruppe used any outlines at all on their numerals.

/Anders
Reply With Quote
  #407  
Old 12th January 2013, 13:41
Marc-André Haldimann's Avatar
Marc-André Haldimann Marc-André Haldimann is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2,086
Marc-André Haldimann is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Great to have your feedback, Anders!

Cheers
Marc
Reply With Quote
  #408  
Old 12th January 2013, 16:38
the_ivan the_ivan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 57
the_ivan is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann View Post
Hi gang,

Another issue arises: where was this well known serie shot? My current guess is Erla Leipzig. Any confirmation would be much appreciated!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Cheers
Marc
My modus operandi: since Mtt Regensburg and Erla Leipzig camo styles are well defined and esily recognized, if doesn't match those, then must be from WNF. This leaves the option of main repair centres, but since these camo styles are not so well photo-documented...

Of interest in those photos are the ailerons, all visible have Flettner tabs. A number of machines received those in late 1943, but camo doesn't match the one applied in WNF at the time.
Reply With Quote
  #409  
Old 25th January 2013, 12:29
Marc-André Haldimann's Avatar
Marc-André Haldimann Marc-André Haldimann is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2,086
Marc-André Haldimann is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Thanks for your input, the_ivan!

Cheers
Marc
Reply With Quote
  #410  
Old 25th January 2013, 13:26
Marc-André Haldimann's Avatar
Marc-André Haldimann Marc-André Haldimann is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2,086
Marc-André Haldimann is on a distinguished road
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Folks,

A fresh look at this well known picture, recently proposed for sale on Ebay (http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/fo...opic=14798&hl=, post 54)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57631641014196

allows to tie down the location of another Ebay photo found on 21 December 2012 (same thread, post no 35):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...7631641014196/
Source: http://www.ebay.de/i...G-/121041866289

It is actually the machine seen half hidden under camouflage nets in the background above the rear fuselage of Bf109 K-4 W.Nr. 334 265. Notice the same spinner and blades orientation and the two wooden beams to be seen hanging diagonally to the right of the plane's left wing. There is thus a high chance this is another Bf109K-4.

A closer look at the camouflage nets makes me also think this is not only a single hardstand camouflage but the front part of an underwood alley, possibly the final assembly area where Mtt-"Bürg" (shortening for the Flossenbürg KZ fuselage production line) fuselages and Altenhammer wings were mated. this could also tie down the location of this Mtt-"Bürg" fuselage row hidden on a forest track (Holzrückerweg) shown in two pictures published in:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625380126592
Source: Hideki Noro 2009, "LO+ST", p.103

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...7625380126592/
Source: Janowicz 2010, p.58

No certitude on my side, but just trying to tie down those loose ends of sometimes well known pictures not yet put in their proper context...

Cheers
Marc
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bf 109 in a spin - what was it like? DavidIsby Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 11th July 2010 02:54
Bf 109 in East Coast War Bond Drive, 1944 Richard Muller Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 2nd February 2010 04:47
Losses - III./JG76 in October 1944 Andre Stewart Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 10 14th October 2009 11:06
Bf 109 E-1s during the Battle of Britain Christer Bergström Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 10 17th June 2006 20:20
Discussion on the air war in Tunisia Christer Bergström Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 14 1st April 2005 19:47


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net