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  #1  
Old 19th June 2007, 17:08
montana montana is offline
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Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)

Somebody can help me with information concerning Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF) ? I know he received the British D.F.C. and D.S.O. and he was an Osage form Oklahoma. Many thanks in advance.

Montana
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Old 19th June 2007, 18:05
Amrit1 Amrit1 is offline
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Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)

What exactly do you want to know?

He was with 71 Squadron, and was shot down and taken prisoner on 31/10/41, after shooting down 3 Me109s.

http://www.eaglesquadrons.com/copper....php?album=110

There's also some info on him at:

http://www.minneapolis.afrc.af.mil/s...061228-114.pdf
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Old 19th June 2007, 22:40
montana montana is offline
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Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)

Thanks a lot for your help. It is a good start for researches concerning a genuine pilot !

Rgds
Montana
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Old 20th June 2007, 12:16
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)

Hi Montana & Amrit1

I don't wish to start another controversy, but I am sure that Daniel did not receive the DSO or DFC (may have been awarded a US DFC though?). Nor was he credited with any kills as far as I am aware, even though I have seen it written that he shot down up to five German aircraft including a Ju88, but none of these appear in various squadron records. Perhaps someone can prove otherwise.

Cheers
Brian
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Old 20th June 2007, 13:13
Amrit1 Amrit1 is offline
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Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)

Hi Brian,

I agree. I'm having problems trying to find info on his awards too. Nothing on the LG about either, and I wondered whether the DFC was American too.

As to his 3 claims, he states in "The Eagle Squadrons" by Haugland that on October 13, 1941, flying as a pilot officer for 71 Squadron, whilst escorting Blenheims to Bethune, France:

Quote:
I had broken formation to attack three 109Fs. I shot the lead one up and he exploded, knocking the other two down also. I was so surprised and excited that I turned for England, forgetting to watch out for other enemy planes. I was soon being fired at by other 109Fs
Hopefully, someone can confirm three losses in the area of Bethune.

Cheers
A
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Old 20th June 2007, 16:34
Henk Welting Henk Welting is offline
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Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)

Date confirmed 13th October 1941 - Spitfire AD112. Svcnr J/15016 from Strubb City, Kansas. Camp L3 PoW Nr. 1415. As far as I know no British awards.

Henk.
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Old 20th June 2007, 21:51
Steve49 Steve49 is offline
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Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)

It does seem that his remarkable claims lack any Luftwaffe losses to support them.

It appears that only one Bf109 (from Stab/JG26) was shotdown during the day and this is credited to a Blenheim. A second Bf109 (from II/JG2) made a forcelanding after an engine failure,together with one Fw190 (from JG26) which forcelanded with damage.

All together it wasn't a good day for Fighter Command with 12 Spitfires, 1 Hurricane and 1 Blenheim lost.

Regards,

Steve
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Old 21st June 2007, 00:04
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)

Hi,

Says that he served with six RAF Squadrons including 242, 71,121 133.

Anyone know the rest ?

71 Sqn first victory was a shared claim on Feb 15th 41.
Anyone know of any earlier unsuported claims by 71 Sqn ?

Alex
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Old 21st June 2007, 01:22
Amrit1 Amrit1 is offline
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Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)

Joss Leclercq over on rafcommands.com posted this in response to my query:

Quote:
Hello,

As P/O Gilmore Cecil Daniel (J.15016) could have fallen in my research area in northern France, I checked his PoW questionnaire at Kew (W344 series). It appears that he came down in the Channel, and he wrote he was captured at Calais on the 16th.

According his questionnaire, he was born on 30th November 1917 and joined in July 1940.

His address was in Skiatook, Oklahoma in 1945.

He was treated for small shell splinters in St Omer hospital from the 16th to the 19th October, then in Lille hospital from the 19th to the 31st of October, then to Dulag Luft.

In front of the line « decorations » : he wrote « nil ».

There’s a short entry about him in Phil Listemann’s booklet about No. 71 Squadron, on page 38. He flew with No. 71 Squadron in september and october 1941 only, posted from No. 133 Squadron. This author confirms Daniel was a native american and states he was the youngest Eagle pilot. He wrote he had joined at the age of 15 but this is conflicting with the WO344 document, unless Daniel meant to have remustered to aircrew, as he wrote in the « civilian trade or profession » : aircraft mechanic.

No award mentioned in the book.


I also doubt a lot about the award of a D.S.O. to a junior officer with quite a short operational career.

Joss
Seems to clear up the decorations issue but not the claims. As to the issue of the age discrepancy I would direct people to the the pdf link I posted in an earlier message. Thank you Joss.
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Old 23rd June 2007, 13:01
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)

Hi guys

Quotes from the book The Eagles' War regarding Gilmore Daniel:

He states he was 14 when he joined the RCAF at Moose Jaw in December 1939, having a 'doctored' birth certificate provided by his father. Presumably arrived in UK late 1940/early 1941. Sergeant Pilot

Quotes from above book, slightly abridged:

"After a short time in Hurricanes with 121 Squadron, I went to 129 Squadron flying Spitfires and shot down a Ju88 making a twilight raid on Hull."

"From 129 Squadron I went to 43 Squadron flying Hurricanes again. I scored a probable here. I also helped in a rescue mission which later earned me a DFC. There was a notation on my discharge saying the DFC had been gazetted."

"Next I went to 257 Squadron where I shot down two 109s and shot up many E-boats. Then I transferred to 242 Squadron. I was flying Hurricanes when I was shot down for the first time. A He111 shot my radiator off, but I was credited with probably destroying him. I crash-landed south-east of Norwich but wasn't hurt."

"From 242 I went across the field to where 133 Squadron was forming. I got off on the wrong foot as usual and (S/Ldr) Brown had me posted to 19 Squadron. I shot down a He111 off Great Yarmouth. The bomber set my plane on fire. I baled out into the drink and was rescued by a patrol boat from Felixstowe."

"I was transferred to 401 Squadron. They were being equipped with P-39s. We were assigned to the Fighter Development Unit which had many different types of planes - Me109, FW190, Ju88, Ju87, He111 and Do217 as well as P-40 and P-36, and Whirlwinds, Typhoons, CR42. We strafed flak ships at Ostend and Calais trying out American planes."

"I was reassisgned to 133 Squadron for three weeks and received my commission. Then I went to 71 Squadron."

He was shot down by a Bf109 on 13 October 1941. The book states: "He had blasted the lead 109F in a formation of three and it had exploded, sending the other two planes down as well. Other enemy planes then set Daniel's aircraft afire and he parachute in to the Channel."

Book continues: POW 1941-45. Retired from the RAF (?) in 1946 as squadron leader (?) - my question marks!

Joined USAF in 1948 as Technical Sergeant. Flew one tour of Korea as Okinawa-based Technical Sergeant; flew second tour as 2/Lt radar-operator in F-94s of 319th FIS and was awarded a US DFC for a sortie on 4 August 1952. By 1959 he was piloting F-86Ds of 512thFIS during Lebanon Crisis covering Marine landings. Then became Base Operations Officer Beirut. In Vietnam 1966-67 as Staff Officer directing covert operations, awarded Bronze Star. Retired from USAF in 1969

Summary of above: RCAF 1940-41

121 Squadron
129 Squadron claimed Ju88
43 Squadron claimed probable (109?). Allegedly awarded DFC for rescue operation
257 Squadron claimed two Bf109s and many E-boats damaged
242 squadron claimed He111 probable - also shot down and crash-landed
133 Squadron
19 Squadron claimed He111 - also shot down & baled out into sea
401 Squadron
FDU strafed flak ships flying P-40 (?)
133 Squadron commissioned
71 Squadron claimed three Bf109s - shot down and POW

He is quoted as saying. "One might think that serving in so many RAF squadrons, I set some kind of record. It was not too unusual to be in units for a short time."

Well guys, pick the bones out of that!!!

Cheers
Brian

Last edited by Brian; 23rd June 2007 at 19:39.
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