George Edward Moberly

[Teresa Maria]

Dear All,
Do you happen to know who shot down George Edward Moberly?
All I have been able to find is that he was shot down by a Bf 109 http://www.kenley-rafa.org.uk/moberly-george-edward/,
but that was the standard plane of the Luftwaffe...
Thank you in advance.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

According to the old book "Battle of Britain" by Francis K Mason, Moberly was the first RAF pilot shot down that day at 1140 hrs.

The earliest German claims that day (I believe these was one hour difference between UK and German hour that day):
26.08.40 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Leesmann: 2 ► 1./JG 52 Spitfire £ Dover 12.50 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/II-9B
26.08.40 Oblt. Helmut Bennemann: 1 ► 2./JG 52 Spitfire £ Dover: 1.500-1.000 m. 12.50 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/II-10B
26.08.40 Fw. Alfons Bacher: 2 2./JG 52 Spitfire £ Dover: 1.500-1.000 m. 12.50 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/II-11B POW 26/08/40
26.08.40 Maj. Werner Mölders: 27 ► Stab/JG 51 Spitfire £ Folkestone 12.55 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/II-4
26.08.40 Oblt. Richard Leppla: 7 ► 3./JG 51 Spitfire £ - 12.57 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/II-93B

But I have also the following claims without any time known:
26.08.40 Hptm. Günther Lützow: 11 ► Stab/JG 3 Defiant £ - - OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/I-1
26.08.40 Hptm. Günther Lützow: 12 ► Stab/JG 3 Defiant £ - - OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/I-2
26.08.40 Oblt. Friedrich-Franz von Cramon: 2 ► Stab/JG 3 Defiant £ - - OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/I-3

26.08.40 Oblt. Lothar Keller: 12 ► 1./JG 3 Hurricane £ Themsemündung - OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/I-97
26.08.40 Ofw. Robert Olejnik: 1 ► 2./JG 3 Hurricane £ Faversham - OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/I-98
26.08.40 Fw. Hans Ehlers: 3 ► 2./JG 3 Spitfire £ westlich Calais - OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/I-99
26.08.40 Uffz. Kurt Gräf: 3 ► 3./JG 3 Spitfire £ Canterbury - OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/I-100

26.08.40 Oblt. Egon Troha: 3 ► 8./JG 3 Spitfire £ - - OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/I-70

26.08.40 Ltn. Hans Kolbow: 10 ► 5./JG 51 Spitfire £ nördlich Dover - OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/II-116B

26.08.40 Fw. Richard Heller: 1 ► 8./ZG 26 Abschuß £ - - Obermaier
26.08.40 Fw. Richard Heller: 2 8./ZG 26 Abschuß £ - - Obermaier

The Defiant claims by JG 3 were probably claimed against 264 Sqn that was engaged just after 616 Sqn.

For the day I have 54 claims by JG and ZG units. Mason list 32 losses that day:
_ 3 Hurricanes of 1 Sqn RCAF shot down by Do 17s
_ 1 Hurricane of 257 Sqn damaged on the ground
_ 24 other fighters destroyed and 4 damaged by being shot down by Bf 109s, Bf 110s or unknown (I mean not said in the book)

That is at least 2,25 German victories for each RAF loss.

Note: all blue lines are claims by German aces (or future aces).

[RSwank]

This website makes a claim for Josef Fozo.

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknF...B6z%C3%B6.html

[Teresa Maria]

Dear Laurent,
Thank you very much for your answer. So, it is actually not so clear who shot him down. Maybe Karl-Heinz Leesman? What do you think?

Poor George, he was the first RAF pilot shot down that day... Frankly, I always find it sad to read about a pilot who was shot down and killed.

[Teresa Maria]

Originally Posted by RSwank

This website makes the claim for Josef Fozo.

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknF...B6z%C3%B6.html

Thank you. So Josef Fozo also killed Desmond 'Cookie' Cooke...

[Laurent Rizzotti]

The link provided by RSwank is a copy of Wikipedia (I guess this kind of website is supposed to generate advertissement money without proposing anything new by the way, but this is not the subject).

Still the original Wikipedia entry give no hint how they identify the victim of Oblt Josef Fözö that day. As I have said above, the Germans overclaimed by 2,25 to 1, so saying who shot down who will be nearly impossible. But we can say who probably didn't shot down who, and in this case, Fözö, who claimed a Spitfire in Canterbury half an hour after the first German claims is probably not the pilot who shot down the first RAF pilot lost that day off Dover.

Even if Moberly had been shot down at the right time and place, two other pilots of 4./JG 51 claimed victories at the same time and place, so choosing one as the real victor is pure guess.

Regarding Desmond Cooke, on that day German pilots claimed 4 victories against fighter for 3 RAF losses, so close to the mark. RAF lost a Spitfire of 65 Sqn (Cooke) and two Hurricanes of 79 Sqn a little earlier.

The Luftwaffe claims that day (8 July 1940)
08.07.40 Ofw. Maximilian Stotz: 9 ► 4./JG 54 Blenheim £ südlich Rotterdam 14.10 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/II-81B
Battle against a Hudson of 206 Sqn RAF that was not shot down



08.07.40 Ltn. Hermann Staiger: 3 ► 7./JG 51 Spitfire £ N.W. Cap Gris Nez 16.35 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/II-44B
08.07.40 Ltn. Kurt Bildau: 2 7./JG 51 Spitfire £ N.W. Cap Gris Nez 16.35 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/II-45B
08.07.40 Oblt. Arnold Lignitz: 5 ► 9./JG 51 Hurricane £ N.W. Cap Gris Nez 16.35 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/II-46B
Probably against 79 Sqn RAF (two losses)


08.07.40 Oblt. Josef Fözö: 2 ► 4./JG 51 Spitfire £ nördlich Dover 16.45 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/II-32B
Probably against 65 Sqn RAF (one loss)

[Teresa Maria]

Dear Laurent,
Thank you very much for your reply. As Desmond Cooke was in 65 Sqn RAF, he may indeed have been shot down by Josef Fözö.
(I've read a bit about Desmond Cooke in Gordon Olive's book, as it's largely available online, and I would actually like to learn more about him... Poor Desmond!)