Hampdens shot down by Bf109s en route to Russia 4/5 September 1942

[BrianC]

Hi guys

Three Hampdens were shot down by Bf109s - AT238, P1273 and P1344. I believe the Bf109s were scrambled from Petsamo. Has anyone the identities of the German pilots involved?

Many thanks
Take care
Stay safe
Brian

[igorrB]

P1273 and P1344 indeed was shot down near Petsamo airfield (18 km to SW and appr. 35 km to SW). I think both by some 6./JG 5 pilot. Third plane was not AT238, but AT138. It was shot down near Alakurtti.

[Stig Jarlevik]

It is a bit odd that nothing of this very successful night remains in any German files.
Neither Mombeek not Prien & Co has anything to say.

As far as is known by me, there is not a single claim made by any JG 5 pilot that night.

What is known is that Soviet fighters were very active and shot down at least one of the Hampdens that night/morning.

B Rgds
Stig

[igorrB]

Germans fighters made 3 claims for Hampdens that night. But there is no details about persons and even units in survived docs.
Soviet fighters made many contacts with Hampdens that night, but all of them ended happily after proper signal exchange with exception of one crew (AE356), which made some inexplicable things like not firing of recognition cartridges when shelled by Flaks and approached by fighters. This was only plane crushed after contact with VVS fighters. In my view this was their own fault - just read account in 144 sqn ORB!

[Stig Jarlevik]

OK Igor

Since that is new information, may I ask your source?

Cheers
Stig

[Carl-Fredrik Geust]

This extract from Red Stars Vol.4 - Lend-Lease aircraft in Russia (2002) by Gennadiy Petrov and myself may be of interest:

---
18 April 1946 Soviet Lt.Gen. G.M. Savonenkov (Deputy Chairman of the Allied Control Commission in Finland) asked the Finnish Foreign Minister Carl Enckell for information about the crew of Hampden AT138 which was shot down over Finland 4 September 1942. According to the ACC inquiry at least the pilot Sgt. J.G.R. Bray was taken prisoner, while the navigator Lt. J.D. Smith (No. 129539), the R/T operator Sn.Sgt. J.D. Kirkby (No. 1181778), the MG-gunners Sgt. R.S. Otter and Corp. L.H. Mallinson (No. 1476073) apparently were killed.

On 30 April Mr. Enckell answered that "no British aircraft was shot down by Finnish forces during WW II, but according to German reports an aircraft was shot down by German FLAK near Alakurtti 4 September 1942 at 04.23 am, and was destroyed by fire. One Australian aviator escaped by parachute and was taken prisoner by the Germans. No further information about the fate of the imprisoned aviator nor about the other crew members is available."

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[BrianC]

Many thanks, guys

In addition to the Hampden loss, I believe that a Pe-2 was claimed by flak over Alakurtti during the period that the Hampden fell to Bf109s - i.e 0320-0430. I can't find a corresponding Pe-2 loss, so was this another (or the same) Hampden?

As far as I am aware, the other two Hampdens reported shot down by Bf109s, fell at approximately 0352 and crashed 70km north-east of Nautsi, and at 0630 north-west of Petsamo. I this correct?

Thanks for the interest.

Stay safe
Brian

[harrison987]

P1344 is current under restoration in the UK.

I used to own the original instrument panel from this wreck.

Mike

[Nick Beale]

The way this discussion is heading, it will soon belong on the Allied & Soviet board.

[igorrB]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

OK Igor
Since that is new information, may I ask your source?

144 sqn's ORB (AIR-27-982-14), Fliegermeldungen LF 5 25.8-31.12.1942 (TSAMO 500/12452/450) + some comments to my LJ post about 4-5/9/1942.