Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 8th January 2020, 17:09
manniw manniw is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 45
manniw is on a distinguished road
Re: Crash B26 on 11.April 1945 near Cologne

Hallo RSwank


Thank you for the information about Samar.....but we can't really be sure with this information.
I'll send you a private message regarding AFHRA's CDs...

Best regards
Manni
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 8th January 2020, 18:40
RSwank RSwank is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bloomington, IN USA
Posts: 2,022
RSwank is on a distinguished road
Re: Crash B26 on 11.April 1945 near Cologne

Manni,

I agree we are not 100% sure about Samar and also Koker. We think the crew was:
John T Hopkins, Jr. Pilot
John E Lidicker, Co-Pilot
Donald Merle Wolberg, Bombardier/Navigator
Emory Jacob Koker, Jr.
Andrew Samar
Warren J Dwyer, (KIA).

Got your message re: AFHRA's CDs
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 9th January 2020, 23:23
RSwank RSwank is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bloomington, IN USA
Posts: 2,022
RSwank is on a distinguished road
Re: Crash B26 on 11.April 1945 near Cologne

I ordered via e-mail the CD from AFHRA which contains the mission reports for April. Within a few hours they had provided a 420 MB file, B0262. which I downloaded (it took about an hour). The file is a single pdf file of 1938 pages. Starting on page 613 is the mission report for the attack on Aschersleben. Here is a brief extract of some of the relevant info from the file. I will spend more time going through it this weekend. On some pages the handwritten part is very light and hard to read.

322 BG: (April 11 - Aschersleben Marshalling Yard)
Crew for Plane 030:
2nd Lt Hopkins, J.
2nd Lt Lidicker, J
2nd Lt Wolberg, D
Sgt Samar, A.
Sgt Dwyer, W
S/Sgt Koker, E.

44 a/c dispatched, 35 dropping 276 x 500 GP on and in vicinity of Primary. 3 a/c dropped 24 x 500 GP on Other target. Bomb disposition unknown of 1 a/c which was lost.

5 a/c failed to bomb; 1 mechanical failure; 4 other (1-Flt. Leader could not make sighting operation at Primary due to haze and smoke; PDI went out when he attempted to bomb another target. 3-leader did not drop.)

1 a/c/ lost to flak; hit in left engine at F550450, 5 miles N of Bonn. Ground forces report the following: a/c crashed at F478483 on east bank of Rhine river, in enemy territory. 1 crewman was killed, 4 wounded, 1 uninjured crewman is a prisoner of war. Due to the fact that the enemy had no medical facilities, a momentary truce was arranged. Ground forces evacuated wounded by boat to friendly territory and they are now in 124th Evacuation Hospital.

Aircraft lost was 030 P, NO 4, 3rd FLT, 2nd Box
1 A/C MISSING – A/C NO 030 P, NO 4, 3rd Flt, 2nd Box. The flight made 3 bomb runs. After leaving target, due to the number of bomb runs and evasive action taken, the flight got off course and went to Marburg instead of the briefed return route. At Marburg they called for a QDM which, combined with the wind from the south, carried them north of the briefed route. At F-550450, approximately 5 miles N of Bonn, the flight encountered light flak fire and a/c 030 sustained hits which put the left engine on fire. Altitude of the flight was between 4 and 5,000 feet. The a/c was observed to spin in and one observer reports that it crashed in vicinity of Wahn F-550500. No chutes Observed. Flak from area of F-550450 lasted no more than 30 seconds.

Light fire scored hits on a/c left engine, started smoking- (also) Fire on leading edge of wing between fuselage and right nacelle, (plane) went into a shallow dive-crashed on ground and burst into heavy flames. No chutes, blew up.

Last edited by RSwank; 13th January 2020 at 17:54.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 13th January 2020, 11:17
manniw manniw is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 45
manniw is on a distinguished road
Re: Crash B26 on 11.April 1945 near Cologne

Hello Roland, this is great and interesting information !

According to eyewitnesses from that time the plane came from Porz. According to your new information here, the plane was hit by the flak at Kriegsdorf F-550450 and crashed in Lülsdorf.
So it must have taken a completely different flight path. Do you have information which route the plane took from Marburg ?

The G2 reports also show that immediately before the crash the village of UCKENDORF F-530 470 was hit by bombs from a B-26 and the village is in flames. Did the crew possibly carry out an emergency release of their bombs ? Questions upon questions... I'm really curious what else you can find on the AFHRA CD....

Greetings
Manni
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 13th January 2020, 14:00
RSwank RSwank is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bloomington, IN USA
Posts: 2,022
RSwank is on a distinguished road
Re: Crash B26 on 11.April 1945 near Cologne

Manni,

I put the part of the pdf file from AFHRA on the April 11 attack on Aschersleben (139 pages) on a shared Google Drive.

This link should allow you or anyone to look at it (or I believe, download it). The more of us that can look it over the more we may find.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...pu?usp=sharing

Let me know if you can access it, if not I will try something else.

If the Google Drive works, I will add more things as we go.

I have found the the same crew flew a mission on April 9 in plane 225 X to Naumberg. On that mission they carried 8 x 500 lb bombs. The crew is listed in the same order as the April 11 mission: Hopkins, Lidicker, Wolberg, Samar, Dwyer and Koker. That might mean Koker (listed last both times) was the tail gunner. Just a couple of comments on terms (as I understand them). A "Box" consisted of 3 flights, each flight had six planes. The file includes a map which shows the flight paths of both the main group and Hopkins group which went too far north on the return.

Last edited by RSwank; 18th January 2020 at 00:39.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 14th January 2020, 14:37
manniw manniw is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 45
manniw is on a distinguished road
Re: Crash B26 on 11.April 1945 near Cologne

Roland,
A thousand thanks for the information. I was able to open it without any problems and download it to my PC. But promptly some questions arise to me again:

1.) is it possible to see the flight map somewhere in the WEB? Then I could follow the flight path with the three flight sketches available.

2.) Eyewitnesses from here report that there were two or three planes, the one Hopkins shot down. But now I have not read anything in the documents about the flight to Aschersleben, that there were several planes which went off course......maybe my English is not good enough for that ;-))....

3.) I also assume that Koker was a tail gunner, just like you assume. Dwyer was probably the shooter in the bow, the function of Samar I cannot determine.

Greetings Manni

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 14th January 2020, 14:55
RSwank RSwank is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bloomington, IN USA
Posts: 2,022
RSwank is on a distinguished road
Re: Crash B26 on 11.April 1945 near Cologne

Manni,

We will have to work up the flight map ourselves. There is actually a lot of information in the file, spread among different pages besides what is on their 3 page version of a "map". I will start to work through it.

The gunner in the nose of the ship would have been the bombardier/navigator, Wolberg. If Koker operated the tail gun then the top turret gunner may have been Dwyer.

Here is a diagram for the bailout positions for a 7 man crew of a B-26.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightning72/3972129164
The 7th man (man in yellow) was a "tunnel" gunner that could move to either side in the rear of the plane and operated one of the waist/belly guns on that side. His position had been eliminated. So with a six man crew, assuming they are listing the enlisted men from front to back it may be that Samar was the radio operator, Dwyer was the top turret gunner and Koker the tail gunner.

Now that I know you can see the file, I will work up "our" version of the flight map and know I can refer to various pages in the file. It is the 2nd Box (with which Hopkins flew) that went off course on the return. They had a lot of trouble at the target.



Regards,

Rolland
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 15th January 2020, 14:52
RSwank RSwank is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bloomington, IN USA
Posts: 2,022
RSwank is on a distinguished road
Re: Crash B26 on 11.April 1945 near Cologne

Manni,

I have added a partial "transcription" of the first 22 pages of the Mission Report on the Google Drive. (Link given in post #45 above). I will work through the rest of the pages over the next few days and add more pages as I go. I will also work up a better mission map. (I will make any additions or corrections that anyone finds. They use a lot of abbreviations that may be somewhat "obscure".)

Last edited by RSwank; 16th January 2020 at 13:25.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 15th January 2020, 21:41
RSwank RSwank is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bloomington, IN USA
Posts: 2,022
RSwank is on a distinguished road
Re: Crash B26 on 11.April 1945 near Cologne

I uploaded Dwyer's IDPF file to the Google Drive. A few things of interest.

While he was first buried in Lulsdorf, the army moved the body to Ittenbach Cemetery #1 (a temporary military cemetery) on April 16, 1945. His grave there was marked as X-18 (Unknown). He had been badly wounded in the right thigh (open wound, compound fracture - comminuted) and the body still had a belt used as a tourniquet on the leg when recovered. He was later identified through his fingerprints.

In 1991 his grave at Margraten was adopted by a woman who "may" have tried to contact the family. She was given the names (but not addresses) of Dwyer's mother and sister and his birthday by the army. She had contacted AFHRA because she wanted to know his birthday (November 26, 1923). She wanted to put flowers on the grave on that date. (The Dutch also put flowers on all the Margraten graves on Memorial Day.) Both Dwyer's mother and sister are now deceased and there is nothing in the file to indicate the adopter ever made contact with his family. (His grave may still be adopted by the same Dutch family, these "adoptions" often pass down the generations) so perhaps that is something to follow up on. We would need to go through the Margraten Foundation to find out if the current adopters would want to make contact.)

Last edited by RSwank; 19th January 2020 at 12:41.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 16th January 2020, 18:34
manniw manniw is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 45
manniw is on a distinguished road
Re: Crash B26 on 11.April 1945 near Cologne

Hello, Rolland,

i'll never be able to make up for all the trouble you've taken with my subject ! thank you very much...

Very interesting are the documents about Warren Dwyer, it's amazing what you can find about him if you, like you, know the right sources. Unfortunately the funeral documents do not show which job Dwyer did on the flight.
I'll be in Holland next week and will visit Dwyer's grave, maybe I'll find out something about the family who is taking care of Dwyer's grave before that...
Is there a way to get to the records of the rest of the crew to find out about their injuries, especially Hopkins, Lidicker and Wollberg ?...........

until next time greetings
Manni

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ofw. Kurt Welter 5./JG302 Jan-Mar 1944 RodM Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 9 15th April 2014 04:47
Information about a plane crash on March 28th 1945 an english ( or canadian) plane crashed near Schoonrewoerd in the Netherlands mpierrela Allied and Soviet Air Forces 10 22nd January 2014 17:05
[Study] November 23, 1939 : Luftwaffe losses / crash sites over France (I need your help !) DIscotraxxx Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 18 21st October 2013 22:49
Me 163 crash on 22 January 1945 Laurent Rizzotti Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 23rd January 2013 08:16
Incomplete loss information Jim P. Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 11 7th November 2011 00:33


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net