Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 30th October 2008, 09:30
Bernard Bernard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 23 rue d' Austerlitz. 69004. Lyon. France.
Posts: 146
Bernard is on a distinguished road
Luftwaffe losses. Rhubarb 22/05/1941.

Good morning to all.

On the 22nd of may 1941, P/O D.B.Ogilvie and Sgt E. Malczewski , No.601 Squadron flew a rhubarb operation to St. Omer area, claiming 1 Ju52 probable and 1 Bf109 destroyed:

AIR 50/165.p 220.P/O OGILVIE.Date: 22nd May 1941.Flight: " A ". Squadron: No. 601.Number of enemy aircraft: Three.Type of enemy aircraft: Me.109' s ( Two ) Ju.52 ( One ). Time attack was delivered: 1210 hours.Place attack was delivered: Over Forêt de Aperlecques. ( France ).Height of enemy: 300 feet.Enemy casualties: One Me.109 destroyed. One Ju.52 probable ( the latter shared with P/O MALCZWESKI. ( Poilish ).Our casualties: Nil.( r ) GENERAL REPORT:-I was Red One and attacked a Ju.52, firing a half-second burst at 200 yards from quarter head-on. The center air-screw stopped dead. I re-attacked from below starboard quarter seeing large panelbreak away - or possibly aileron. On this second attack I fired for 2/3 seconds with 12 guns. Noreturn fire came from the Ju.52. This E/A was later attacked by Red Two who caused the port engine to slow up and emit smoke. I claim half a probable in the Ju.52 wich was last seen at 250feet loosing height gradually. Half a mile behind the Ju.52 we met two Me.109' s and I shot into cloud and dived out head-on onto the foremost Me.109 firing at it from 200 ffet and closing to 50.The cockpit cover flew off and the E/A hurtled to earth and blew up. The burning wreckage was seen by red Two.One Me.109 destroyed.One Ju.52 probably destroyed ( shared with P/O Malczewski ) ( Polish ).Signed. OGILVIE.Pilot Officer.

AIR 50/165.p 197.P/O MALCZEWSKI. ( POLISH ).Date: 22nd May 1941.Flight: " A ". Squadron: No. 601.Number of enemy aircraft: Three.Type of enemy aircraft: Me.109' s and Ju.52.Time attack was delivered: 1210 hours.Place attack was delivered: Over Forêt de Aperlecques. ( France ).Height of enemy: 300 feet.Enemy casualties: One Ju.52 probable ( shared with P/O OGILVIE ).Our casualties: Nil.( r ) GENERAL REPORT:-I was Red Two when my section met a Ju.52 at 300 feet. Red One made two quick attacks on the Ju.52, stopping the centre engine dead, and causing an aileron or large panel to fall off. When RedOne broke waway I attacked the Ju.52 from port above, firing a burst at 50 yards wich caused theport engine to slow up and emit smoke. When last seen the E/A was at 250 feet over an area inwich landing was impossible ( forest ) gradually losing height after vainly trying to pull up into cloud. No return fire was experienced. I claim half a probable in the Ju.52.Half a probable Ju.52.Signed: Malczewski.Pilot Officer ( Polish ).

Could anyone please confirm these losses and give details ?

Many thanks.

Bernard.

Last edited by Bernard; 30th October 2008 at 09:31. Reason: mistake
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 30th October 2008, 15:03
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,661
Chris Goss is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftwaffe losses. Rhubarb 22/05/1941.

Nothing Ju 52-wise but the 109 is believed to have been 7/JG 3 Gefr Hans-Guenther Kaerger killed
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 30th October 2008, 16:27
Bernard Bernard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 23 rue d' Austerlitz. 69004. Lyon. France.
Posts: 146
Bernard is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftwaffe losses. Rhubarb 22/05/1941.

Thank to you Chris.

Bernard.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 30th October 2008, 19:13
Tomislav Haramincic's Avatar
Tomislav Haramincic Tomislav Haramincic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Posts: 233
Tomislav Haramincic
Re: Luftwaffe losses. Rhubarb 22/05/1941.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Goss View Post
Nothing Ju 52-wise but the 109 is believed to have been 7/JG 3 Gefr Hans-Guenther Kaerger killed
The loss in more details

Bf 109F-2 WNr.8143 22.05.41 7./JG3 Gefr. Hans-Günther Kärger (verm.), Luftkampf mit Hurricane, Raum Calais - 100% ws.3+I

Maybe also this loss should be considered (I don't have the exact time for this loss)
Bf 109F-2 WNr.8138 22.05.41 Stab III./JG3 Obfhr. Ulrich Burkhardt (†), Absturz, Fiennes - 100% ws.<+I

best regards,
Tomislav
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 31st October 2008, 08:42
Bernard Bernard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 23 rue d' Austerlitz. 69004. Lyon. France.
Posts: 146
Bernard is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftwaffe losses. Rhubarb 22/05/1941.

Many thaks to you Tomislav.

Bernard.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 31st October 2008, 17:44
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 2,001
Franek Grabowski
Re: Luftwaffe losses. Rhubarb 22/05/1941.

Ok, gents, but unless this was a fake claim, the aircraft should be noted somewhere, at least as damaged, should not it?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 6th November 2008, 13:52
RT RT is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 3,157
RT is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Luftwaffe losses. Rhubarb 22/05/1941.

Even not with the second line units,

"the aircraft should be noted somewhere, "

Are you giving-up with your theory on plot to hide the losses ???


Remi
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 7th November 2008, 01:03
Andreas Brekken's Avatar
Andreas Brekken Andreas Brekken is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Aurskog, Norway
Posts: 1,491
Andreas Brekken is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftwaffe losses. Rhubarb 22/05/1941.

Hi.

Just checked through the Schulen und sonstige loss listings from 22.05.1941 through 30.06.1941, and no fitting loss is listed there.

Regards,
Andreas B
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 7th November 2008, 12:47
Bernard Bernard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 23 rue d' Austerlitz. 69004. Lyon. France.
Posts: 146
Bernard is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftwaffe losses. Rhubarb 22/05/1941.

Good morning,

'Are you giving-up with your theory on plot to hide the losses ???'

In my opinion, P/O D.B.Ogilvie and Sgt E. Malczewski reported exactly what happened and I believe that such men would have never made a "fake" claim.

I am currently searching about R.A.F Rhubarb operations and I am surprised by the quite important number of RAF pilots claims, in the air or on the ground, damaged or destroyed for wich I can' t find corresponding losses on the Luftwaffe side.

So I don' t know about Franek's theory, but if he supposes that Luftwaffe authorities have hidden losses, I would tend to share his opinion especially for the year 1941.

Gentlemen, if any of you have informations regarding Rhubarb Operations I would be grateful for any help.

Best regards.

Bernard.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 7th November 2008, 13:34
Andy Saunders Andy Saunders is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South East England
Posts: 1,328
Andy Saunders is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftwaffe losses. Rhubarb 22/05/1941.

Why would the Luftwaffe have "hidden" losses exactly? How and who from? If such a thing happened then it beggars belief that hard evidence of such practices has not surfaced before now, surely!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Announcement of Luftwaffe Losses by OKW? Boomerang Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 8 13th August 2006 19:33
Luftwaffe losses in the East NBE1942 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 4th August 2006 14:57
Total Luftwaffe losses in the East Jack Sanders Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 8 19th July 2006 12:53
Soviet air force losses 1941-1945 Six Nifty .50s Allied and Soviet Air Forces 12 15th May 2005 18:57
Luftwaffe fighter losses in Tunisia Christer Bergström Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 47 14th March 2005 05:03


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net