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  #1  
Old 28th June 2012, 18:20
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Luftwaffe Losses for the 5th August 1944 ?

Hello,

There seems to have been quite a few American Claims against the Luftwaffe on the 5th August 1944.

Were there any other Allied claims against the Luftwaffe on that day ?

Is it known just who were the Luftwaffe Victims that day and which Units they were from. Were they killed or injured or become pow's ?

Some sources give me claims against Bf109's and Fw190's but were there other types lost, perhaps while still on the ground ?

Thanks
Alex
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Old 28th June 2012, 19:57
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Losses for the 5th August 1944 ?

According to the USAAF chronology (http://paul.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/wwii...ml/Aug.44.html) Eight Air Force fighters claimed this day 29-1-9 aircraft in the air and 4-0-5 on the ground.

What I have in my files (coming from the Maxwell offical claim list and the files compiled by Mr Oyknik), for the destroyed claims only (I'm not noting probable and damaged):
_ 23 Bf 109, 1 Fw 190 and 1 unfilled type shot down by 8th Air Force fighters, all over Germany
_ 3 Bf 109 shot down over France by Ninth Air Force fighters.

There was no claims this day by US units based in MTO.
As for RAF claims, I have books at home that will have the answer, and will edit this post once back home if nobody had provided it.

Luftwaffe fighter losses this day (missing or shot down) (excluding East Front losses): 32 according to the Summary of Luftwaffe losses
I./JG 1: 2
III./JG 1: 1
I./JG 2: 1
I./JG 3: 6
III./JG 3: 6
II./JG 5: 8
II./JG 27: 4
III./JG 300: 4
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  #3  
Old 28th June 2012, 21:54
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Bruce Lander Bruce Lander is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Losses for the 5th August 1944 ?

Hi,
according to John Foreman "Fighter Command War Diaries - Vol 5" the RAF made no claims on this date.

Cheers

Bruce Lander
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Old 28th June 2012, 21:55
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Losses for the 5th August 1944 ?

Hello Laurent,

THANK YOU

At last.

This is what I have been given from "Day Fighters, In Defence of the Reich 1942-45" by D.Caldwell.

I.Jagdkorps put 6 Gruppen near the enemy by at no greater strength than the previous day: 130 single engined fighters (of which 89 made contact) & 8 Zerstorer were scrambled but were easily dispersed by the escorts losing 14KIA or MIA, 10WIA and 29 fighters. The Americans wrote-off 16 bombers and 9 fighters to all causes. The following is taken from the same publication:

Jagddivision 1
  • I./JG3 - 24 x Bf109G - 6 destroyed - 3 damaged - 5 KIA - 0 MIA - 1 WIA
  • II./JG5 - 22 x Bf109G - 8 destroyed - 2 damaged - 4 KIA - 2 MIA - 2 WIA
  • III./JG300 - 13 x xBf109G - 4 destroyed - 1 damaged - 1 KIA - 0 MIA - 4 WIA
  • I./JG400 - 4 x Me163 - 0 destroyed - 0 damaged - 0 KIA - 0 MIA - 0 WIA
  • L.Beeb.St1 - 4 x Me410 - 0 destroyed - 0 damaged - 0 KIA - 0 MIA - 0 WIA
Jagddivision 2
  • JGr10 - 3 x Ju88 - 0 destroyed - 0 damaged - 0 KIA - 0 MIA - 0 WIA
  • III./JG53 - 34 x Bf109G - 3 destroyed - 2 damaged - 0 KIA - 0 MIA - 1 WIA
  • 7./JG53 - 6 x Bf109G - 0 destroyed - 0 damaged - 0 KIA - 0 MIA - 0 WIA
Jagddivision 7
  • IV.(Sturm)/JG3 - ? x Fw190 - 1 destroyed - 0 damaged - 1 KIA - 0 MIA - 0 WIA
Jagddivision 8
  • II./JG27 - 24 x Bf109G - 4 destroyed - 3 damaged - 1 KIA - 0 MIA - 2 WIA
  • I./JG302 - 13 x Bf109G - 0 destroyed - 0 damaged - 0 KIA - 0 MIA - 0 WIA
There seems to be extra ones you have given for JG1 and JG2 ?? Am I correct in thinking this ??

Thank you once again for your reply.
Alex
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Old 28th June 2012, 22:12
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Losses for the 5th August 1944 ?

Hello Bruce,

thank you for the raf details.
So just us claims alone.

Thanks
alex
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Old 28th June 2012, 22:51
Sealander Sealander is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Losses for the 5th August 1944 ?

Alex,
I can give you what I know about JG 1:
On the 4th and 5th of August they moved from Lonrai to Oysonville
and then again on the 5th (in the evening or afternoon?) to Bretigny.
Life for them at that moment was extremely difficult: RAF and USAAF constantly in the air, shrinking numbers of available a/c, ennemy groundforces approaching rapidly, fuel situation problamatic, supply lines severed also for replacing lost a/c.

The 5th of August these were the JG1 losses:

1)Fw.Max Lau KIA from 9./JG1 Bf109G-6 werknr 413583 Yellow 6 100% loss in aircombat with USAAFP-38 near Compiegne

2)Ofhr Hubert Heckmann WIA from 9./JG1 Bf 109 G-6 werknr 165873 Yellow 13 in aircombat with USAAF P-39 near Compiegne.

3)Uffz Kurt Engfer Fate Unknown from 9./JG77 FW 190 A-8 werknr 731066 white 6 100% loss in aircombat with USAAF fighters near Avranches

regards
Sealander
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Old 29th June 2012, 00:24
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Losses for the 5th August 1944 ?

Hello Sealander,

Many thanks for your detailed reply.
It is most welcome.
Thank you
Alex
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Old 29th June 2012, 00:49
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Losses for the 5th August 1944 ?

Hello,
I found this one in the "Luftwaffe Fighter Pilots" web pages.

Ofhr. Paul Behrendt - 7/JG3 - Bf 109 G-6 (163795) Yellow 11 + | - Unknown reason,
area of Mortain .

05/08/44 Uffz Gerhard Kraus - 7./JG 5 - Bf 109 G-6 (441520)white 3 - Combat,near Bremen / Hannover
05/08/44 Fhr. Helmut Tengeler - 8./JG 5 Bf 109 G-6 (441460)blue 2 - Combat s.w. of Hamburg
and this on the www
5th August 1944, KIA Uffz Hermann Amend, IV/JG 5, 9 victories (all look to be eastern front).
Alex

Last edited by Alex Smart; 29th June 2012 at 05:31.
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Old 29th June 2012, 01:35
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Losses for the 5th August 1944 ?

As I said above, outside of the battles between 8th Air Force and the Luftwaffe over Germany, there was also air battles between 9th Air Force and Luftwaffe over France, that are not covered by Caldwell's book.

In the book "La Luftwaffe face au débarquement allié", seven losses are listed for Luftwaffe over France this day:
1 of 9./JG 77 (attached to I./JG 1) and 1 of I./JG 1
2 of 9./JG 1 (by the way I did a typo above, I should have written 2 losses of III./JG 1)
1 of 3./JG 2
1 of 7./JG 3 (possibly shot down by two P-47s of 48th FG that claimed a Bf 109 shared between them)
1 of 2./JG 54, that was attached to III./JG 54 (the last one was not listed in my first post, as it was either shown in the summary as a I./JG 54 loss, the main body of the Gruppe being on the Eastern Front, or as a III./JG 54 loss, but without enemy action. The text in the book says that it was lost in a battle against P-51s)
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Old 29th June 2012, 02:05
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Losses for the 5th August 1944 ?

Hello Laurent,
Thank you again and for the correction.
All is welcome so that eventually names can be added, only six so far.

Many more to find
Thanks again
Alex
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