III./JG 300 on 24 September 1944

[Jochen Prien]

Gentlemen,

on 24 September 1944 FhjFw. Oskar Rydwal from 11./JG 300 was seriously wounded and succumbed the next day to his wounds at an hospital in Recklinghausen.

The information concerning this loss is contradictory. According to Lorant in his wonderful JG 300 history he was shot down in aerial combat with Spitfires near Döbeln, a place in Saxony, some 20 kms west of Dresden which would seem more than unlikely. Probably a mis-spelling, the real place being Duiven near Arnheim, but that's just a guess.

According to the Operations Report of 3rd Jagddivision the formation III./JG300 belonged to there was no contact with the enemy and no aerial combat during this sortie. Consequently the GQM numerical loss returns attribute this loss not to enemy action.

I would like to know if anybody can shed some more light on this loss.

KR

Jochen Prien

[Nick Beale]

And again ULTRA doesn't provide a clear answer but it may help give context.

[Frank Olynyk]

Dr. Prien,

Checking my USAAF ETO database, I do not find any claims made on Sept 24. Checking my RAF ETO database, the only claim is by a night-fighter for a He 111 probable. On Sept 25 the RAF made a number of Spitfire claims in the Nijmegen - Arnhem in the 1400-1700 hours period (take off to landing). Also Mustang claims. On Sept 23 the RAF made only Mosquito claims against Bf 110s. There are numerous USAAF claims SE of Arnhem on Sept 23 at 1745. On Sept 25 the only USAAF claim is by a P-61A for a Ju 188.

Far be it for me to claim any expertise in European geography, but Recklinghausen being in NW Germany, I do not see any way that your combat could occur in Saxony (which is most likely your point). The only suggestion I can make, based on Wikipedia maps, is of Datteln as a misreading for Döbeln, but this seems a little far-fetched to me.

I would have to conclude that the date of Sept 24 is incorrect, and the actual date of the combat is Sept 25, the date of Rydwal's death. Just guessing.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Kaczmarek]

According to some losses in the Armheim-Nijmegen area. I also think the date of combat should be the 25th Sep and the place could be Doetichem.

Kaczmarek

[Jochen Prien]

Dear Nick, Frank and Kaczmarek,

many thanks for your input. According to the evening op-reports of 3rd JD from 24 and 26 September 1944 however it is clear, that the loss occured on the 24th and that Rydwald was admitted to hospital in Recklinghausen, where he died from his wounds on the 25th as stated in the evening report on the 26th.

And we still have to solve the location issue - Döbeln is a place in Saxony not far from Dresden and cannot have anything to do with a sortie flown over the Arnheim - Nijmegen battlegrounds.

So for the time being we have FhjFw. Rydwald as lost nit due to enemy action on the 24th at an u/i location, dying from his wounds on the 25th in a Recklinghausen hospital.

What about the place called Duiven in Dutch which is pronounced in a remotely similar way as Döbeln ?

KR

Jochen Prien

[karl lusink]

Originally Posted by Jochen Prien

Dear Nick, Frank and Kaczmarek,

many thanks for your input. According to the evening op-reports of 3rd JD from 24 and 26 September 1944 however it is clear, that the loss occured on the 24th and that Rydwald was admitted to hospital in Recklinghausen, where he died from his wounds on the 25th as stated in the evening report on the 26th.

And we still have to solve the location issue - Döbeln is a place in Saxony not far from Dresden and cannot have anything to do with a sortie flown over the Arnheim - Nijmegen battlegrounds.

So for the time being we have FhjFw. Rydwald as lost nit due to enemy action on the 24th at an u/i location, dying from his wounds on the 25th in a Recklinghausen hospital.

What about the place called Duiven in Dutch which is pronounced in a remotely similar way as Döbeln ?

KR

Jochen Prien

Jochen,
Verlustmeldung says: In der luft zerplatzt, Ausstieg und am 25. Sept.44 in Prosperhospital Recklinghausen verstorben.
Feindbeobachtung: nein
I am in possession of a book written in 1947 about the Duiven area which gives the following statement about september 25, 1944:
Tuesday, 26 september 1944
Yesterday two parachutist landed in this area,... The first one was dead the other landed on a hospital at Duiven and was badly wounded admitted to this hospital.....
In april 2006 we (ARGA) excavated an Me 109G-14 at Groessen, SW of Duiven which engine had exploded, we found one cylinder bank and the 2cm cannon barrel ......
We also found yellow paint on the wreckage....
Regards,
Karl Lusink
ARGA

[John Manrho]

The VLM says literally;

"S.W. Döbbeln b. Recklinghausen"

so with two b's....but it still does not solve the location...:-)

Regards,

John.

Ps. I agree the loss occurred on 24.09.1944.

[Stephen M. Fochuk]

What was III/JG 300 flying at the time?

[Jochen Prien]

Stephen,

what do you mean - type of aicraft ? III./JG300 was flying Bf109Gs.

KR

Jochen

[Stephen M. Fochuk]

Yes, as period reports of the time indicate that a bunch of Fw.190's and other enemy fighters were encountered but since the weather was bad, contact was not made which makes me wonder if your man was not hit by either flak or friendly fire?