85. Squadron 1941

[cbe2009]

Hello,

In the excellent book "The Blitz, then and now", Vol. 3, page 44 it says, that on the night 13./14. 1941, a He 111 was shot down by a Havoc mk. 1 flown by Flight Ltn. Raphael and Aircr.man Addison from 85. Squadron.


Is the code of their plane known? VY - ?


Thank you in advance,


Christian

[PMoz99]

Hello Christian.
In the original Aces High book by Shores there is a drawing of a Havoc coded VY-V with the caption stating it is a Havoc II flown by Raphael in 1942.
In a later release of the book he states Raphael frequently flew VY-U and VY-V, but is not clear on when.
Hope this helps
Peter

[Col Bruggy]

Hello,

F/L Raphael was flying Havoc I VY-E on 13/14 June, 1941 (No.85 Sqn ORB, F.541).

Col.

[PMoz99]

Thanks Col!

[cbe2009]

Thank you very much gentlemen, that is highly appreciated!!

Regards,

Christian

[Stig Jarlevik]

Col

With regard to Shores/Williams' book Aces High (1994 edition) they don't list this claim at all. Was it never officially accepted or should I interpret this as a mistake and Raphael should in fact be listed for 8 destroyed instead of the now given 7?

Cheers
Stig

[Col Bruggy]

Gentlemen,

I was very careful in my wording of Post #3. First I had to determine the month that Christian was referring to - easily enough done - because he quoted his source (The Blitz Then and Now Vol.3, p.44). Having determined that the month was June. I then consulted John Foreman's, The Turning Point Part 2, pp.308-11. Foreman describes the loss of a I./KG28 Heinkel, but in his opinion the larger part of the destruction of the Heinkel should be ascribed to No.151 Squadron's, P/O Richard Payne Stevens. Be that as it may, I then checked the 85 Sqn ORB for June, 1941 (F.541), to check the letter of Raphael's Havoc (Christian's original question), it is quoted as VY-E. The 85 Sqn ORB also mentions a probable He111 claim by Raphael, on the same night.

I also checked TTP2/215 (13/14 May, 1941), there are no claims made by Raphael, nor any comparable He111 losses. Also consulted the Luftwaffe Crash Archive, Vol.8 (p.965) - no He111 losses there either.

Took a look at Foreman's Fighter Command War Diaries, Vol.2 (p.198 & 213), and his RAF Fighter Command Victory Claims, Part Two (pp.46 & 52-3) - confirms above remarks.

What we make of Aces High 1/2, I have no idea!

Col.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Col Bruggy

Gentlemen,

I was very careful in my wording of Post #3. First I had to determine the month that Christian was referring to - easily enough done - because he quoted his source (The Blitz Then and Now Vol.3, p.44). Having determined that the month was June. I then consulted John Foreman's, The Turning Point Part 2, pp.308-11. Foreman describes the loss of a I./KG28 Heinkel, but in his opinion the larger part of the destruction of the Heinkel should be ascribed to No.151 Squadron's, P/O Richard Payne Stevens. Be that as it may, I then checked the 85 Sqn ORB for June, 1941 (F.541), to check the letter of Raphael's Havoc (Christian's original question), it is quoted as VY-E. The 85 Sqn ORB also mentions a probable He111 claim by Raphael, on the same night.

I also checked TTP2/215 (13/14 May, 1941), there are no claims made by Raphael, nor any comparable He111 losses. Also consulted the Luftwaffe Crash Archive, Vol.8 (p.965) - no He111 losses there either.

Took a look at Foreman's Fighter Command War Diaries, Vol.2 (p.198 & 213), and his RAF Fighter Command Victory Claims, Part Two (pp.46 & 52-3) - confirms above remarks.

What we make of Aces High 1/2, I have no idea!

Col.

Thanks Col

It looks like a printing error then in Aces High. Instead of 13/14 May we should read 13/14 June.

Thanks for checking

Cheers
Stig