Lancaster R5679 shot down 25th September 1942

[beachcomber]

I'm trying to gather as much information as I can about this Lancaster R5679 shot down on the night of the 25th September 1942 whilst on a Gardening mission to lay mines in the 'Sweet peas' area off the north coast of Germany the air craft was returning when it was attacked by a night fighter over Denmark 2 pilots have been credited as shooting it down Ob Lt Willi Elstermann 11/NJG3 and Ltn Karl Heinz Brandes 7/NJG 2 I believe there is also some reference to it in Theo Boiten - "German Nightfighter War Diaries".

Does anyone out there have access to the German accounts for this action. Next year there are plans for a memorial to be erected in the town Gronhoj where the plane crashed I would like to gather as much information as I can. I have photographs of most of the crew but I am missing Sgt Cedric Nils Coldicott aged 22 service number 570285 RAF and Sgt Edmund Dyson aged 20 service number 1059428 RAFVR. Thanks

[John Manrho]

I do not believe this was a claim of Oblt. Willi Elstermann. I have his logbook and this does not match with the details inthe logbook. In my belief his 4th victory was on 29/4/1042 and his 5th on 13/6/1943.

Thanks,

john

[Delmenhorst]

Shot down by Ltn Karl-Heinz Brandes from 7./NJG 2 - Lancaster 1900 m 02.13 Uhr.

[Leo Etgen]

Hi guys

Boiten and Mackenzie in The Nachtjagd War Diaries do indeed identify this bomber as having been shot down by Oberleutnant Willi Elstermann of 6./NJG 3 as his fifth victory. The only other claim that night is listed as having been made by Leutnant Karl-Heinz Brandes of 7./NJG 2 and that bomber is identified as having been Lancaster I (R5724) of 61 Sqn, RAF. The authors list the victory claimed by Elstermann on 13 June 1943 as having been his sixth. Hopefully others with greater knowledge and resources can clear up if this particular bomber was brought down by Elstermann or not. I hope this helps somewhat.

Horrido!

Leo

[John Manrho]

In my belief Boiten/Mackenzie is wrong here, I assume this will be corrected in the updated volumes?

[beachcomber]

Thanks for your replies guys, I have been researching this now for about 18 months now it is one of the best recorded crashes as it was the only allied aircraft shot down that night. Anders Straarp of airmen.dk has been very helpful as a contact with the town of Gronhoj and a relative of the Pilot David Geddes and I have been working on discovering as much as possible. Anders has so far recorded verbal accounts of the crash and plotted the witness accounts. So any information however small helps to piece this puzzle together. Regards
Mike

[beachcomber]

I have an account of the air battle here:

By Georg Ask Lunden Jensen
GRØNHØJ: At about 01.22 on 25 September 1942 Gudrun Laigaard, then 22, woke up in her bedroom in Grønhøj Inn. ”I woke up because suddenly my bedroom got light. There was a very loud noise,” she states. A few minutes earlier a British Avro Lancaster bomber was on the return flight to England after having dropped mines into the Baltic Sea, but here it ran out of luck. The bomber was attacked by a German night fighter piloted by Oberleutnant Elstermann from Nachtjagdgeschwader 3 and burst into flames near Grønhøj. In the house Gudrun Laigaard could hear the noise from the propeller engines of the big aircraft as it, burning, came roaring at low height over the village. ”It passed very close over the house. I nearly thought that it was going to crash here,” relates Gudrun, now 89, while we sit in the old inn looking out of the window to the western outskirts of Grønhøj where the plane fell to the ground.

Another aircraft also from 61 Squadron was hit by flak and then attacked by Lt. Karl-Heinz Brandes (4) 7./NJG2 an hour later at 02.13 hrs. The crew (3) put up a fierce fight and managed to drive him and another off. The aircraft Lancaster R5724, although badly damaged was skilfully flown back to England and crash landed at Wittering, Northamptonshire. All the crew survived, some were injured and all were awarded immediate D.F.M.'s. In Brandes report there is no mention of the location of the action.

[beachcomber]

Originally Posted by John Manrho

I do not believe this was a claim of Oblt. Willi Elstermann. I have his logbook and this does not match with the details inthe logbook. In my belief his 4th victory was on 29/4/1042 and his 5th on 13/6/1943.

Thanks,

john

Hello John would it be possible to have a scan of the relevant page from the log book. I have times of interception and ground witness accounts. What I would like to do is match up as much information as possible. Can you also confirm what aircraft type and registration he was flying.

regards
Mike

[John Manrho]

I will look, but do also ask Boiten/Mackenzie got their info from.

Cheers,

John

[ju55dk]

Info on Elstermann probably comes from the Nonnemacher list, wich has a proportion of errors built in by Nonnemacher himself, in order to prevent it beeing used without credit. Flensteds site have the same info as Boiten.

Junker