RAF Dakota loss Sept-Oct 1944

[Orwell1984]

Originally Posted by Col Bruggy

Hello,

Dennis - which squadron ORB?

K, I suggest you get yourself a copy of the following book:

Though Without Anger (Losses of Transport and Special Duties Aircraft and Assault Gliders 1940-1945).
Cummings,Colin (Comp. & ed.)
Yelvertoft:Nimbus Publishing,2008.

The section you need (Oct'44 - Nov'44,) is between pages 375-463.

Col.

I went through my copy of this book, looking at a period of September 19th to 21st. There are lots of Dakota losses but all seem to be connected to Market Garden.
There's this database too to look at
https://aviation-safety.net/database...&lang=&page=10

but nothing seems to match.

[Leendert]

Kaki,

Any pointer in the book where and how the Dakota was shot down? Flak or a German fighter? Since direct route Evreux to Diest was pretty much over liberated area in presumed months, an accidental loss may not be excluded.

Regards,

Leendert

[Leendert]

In the online book "Generally Speaking" by Richard Rohmer more details are disclosed on page 170-171.

It appears that his logbook was on a Dakota detailed for the move from Evreux to Diest, but somehow the aircraft was then ordered to fly to the UK instead. There the cargo was unloaded. After some days the or another Dakota had to go to Diest with the original load.
According Rohmer the pilot mistook Diest for another Diest (haven't found out yet what other Diest is referred to...) which brought the Dakota over enemy territory, with fatal results.

A loss over Holland therefore more likely?

Regards,

Leendert

[Laurent Rizzotti]

In the book "Though Without Anger", a 437 Sqn loss on the 21st was promosing but the online ORB shows that all losses that date for this squadron were during a Market Garden operation.

But I found a candidate thanks to Google: the Dakota KG512 of 271 Sqn. See http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...ash-in-Belgium and http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=41891

"Though Without Anger" has the loss on the 25th of September with no detail at all.

A check of the 271 Sqn ORB could be useful.

[Col Bruggy]

Hello,

1195055 W/O William David Bruce ALLEN RAFVR. Allen hailed from Fremantle, Western Australia, consequently he has an (undigitised) A705 at the NAA:

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Sear...1061099&isAv=N

see also: http://www.rafcommands.com/archive/07503.php

Col

[Leendert]

Only if we follow Rohmer’s assertion that the Dakota was shot down over enemy territory, then KG512 cannot be a candidate.

This a/c crashed near Nieuwpoort (Nieuport), Belgium, in the coastal area liberated some two weeks before and with no enemy action involved.

Also, and still referring to Rohmer’s book “Generally Speaking”, at what stage or how did he learn that the pilot had been flying to a wrong Diest and so came over German held land? A returned/evaded survivor of the crash? There weren’t any on the KG512.


Regards,

Leendert

[RSwank]

Just a point about Nieupoort, it is quite close to Dunkirk. Dunkirk was not liberated at this time. In fact it was held by the Germans until the end of the war. I have investigated other allied crashes of planes that strayed over these bypassed ports such as Dunkirk and were shot down. I am not saying that happened here, in fact this link says the plane was on a resupply mission: https://aviation-safety.net/database...id=19440921-30

but might be a possibility which could explain how a plane could "stray" over occupied territory and crash far away from what we think were the then current "front lines".

[Leendert]

Rolland,

Good points to ponder.
More info about circumstances of loss of KG512 are needed. 271 Squadron ORB can help?
Crashsite was Ramskapelle, near Nieuwpoort (there's also a Ramskapelle near Knokke).

Indeed, more losses are known of aircraft coming too close to Dunkirk...

Regards,

Leendert

[dp_burke]

And 430 Sqn knew their gear was lost as they record it in the ORB on Sep 21st. So aircraft lost on or before the 21st.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by Leendert

Rolland,

Good points to ponder.
More info about circumstances of loss of KG512 are needed. 271 Squadron ORB can help?
Crashsite was Ramskapelle, near Nieuwpoort (there's also a Ramskapelle near Knokke).

Indeed, more losses are known of aircraft coming too close to Dunkirk...

Regards,

Leendert

Hello,

How do you know that it was the Ramskapelle near Nieuwpoort rather than the other ? The fact that the crew is buried at Agedem seems to indicate the Knokke area, as it is closer.