Ju 88 1943 defection to RAF Dyce

[ju55dk]

Just to prove my case, an extract from Schmid's military file, in the vain hope to stop further speculation as to his family status and name.

Junker

[alanatabz]

Hi All.

The article I am writing about is the Arrival of the aircraft and how the RAF instigated the monitoring / interception of mail and telephone calls from the base and the surround village. I have details on the number of calls, letters and what was withheld including the reprimand the base got for lack of security.

My book is the less known facts, I have not mentioned speculation on the aircrews's careers, previous flights to Britain or suspected activities. Tales of lifejackets being presented etc have been left out. The main points I have listed are :-

Departure and flight over North Sea, Interception by the RAF, the aircraft, RV jones, Local interception of mail/telephone and the Ju 88s movement south. Ending up ultimately in the Air Museum in Hendon.

The information I have quoted is from the specific file from The National Archives on the defecting aircraft, also the ORBs that list who went to speak to the Aircrew and when RV jones arrived (including a brief run down on RV Jones)

I have been looking at the possibility one of the crew (either as his original name or new name) bought a hotel / Restaurant in Wiltshire in the 1970/80s, however the local Historical society there are looking at this and nobody is aware / recalls and European owners (Dutch, German, Danish, Norweigian etc).


For a lot of the other parts of the book, I have done a lot of research to add details from credible sources, and gone as far as I can with the likes of getting info from the Local hospital on Admission records to support injuries, names, ages, and release dates. It is too easy to rely on the Internet and I find myself spending a lot of time cross checking stories.

One other area I found errors was the Heinkel that crashed at New Aberdour! There was a lot of factually incorrect info. The date (as you can read elsewhere on the site), where the aircraft departed from, the injuries of one crewman.

My article is not a re-run of previous story available on the internet. I find info, and generally paste it onto this forum for peoples views and guidance.

I am happy to provide a PDF of the article once I have completed it, as I want to be as factually correct as possible and will credit anybody that has participated in this.

[ju55dk]

Hi.

Send me a PM with your email.
Junker

[pietrzak]

The prime focus of our site is to respond to families who want to know the circumstances of their loved ones’ careers and (all too frequently) how they died. We handle thousands of requests each year, each with care and respect for the individuals concerned and their relatives. The very last thing we would ever want is to get something wrong.

Sometimes a relative will ask us a supplementary question which deserves an answer. For example, the one that led to our story on Heinrich Schmid. I quote:

“… my brother found it hard to talk about his Bomber Command experiences. He was haunted by them till the day he died. He told me once he had heard a German defected with important equipment that resulted in more bomber crews surviving. I often wonder if my brother was one who was saved by this. Do you know anything about this? I suppose it is too late, but I would like to write to the German if he is still alive to thank him for what he did.”

That’s how we came to dig into this story. We used several sources to put together what we hope is a coherent account, including respected specialist researchers who help us from time to time. It seems some of the information we gathered is at odds with that held by some of the forum members. We would be grateful to receive corrections and additions that get our story closer to the truth, which as we all know, is frequently a victim of the maelstrom of war.

We have a reputation for sharing what we know and frequently add to other people’s accounts of events and certainly appreciate it whenever someone helps us. So, thank you to this Forum for your constructive comments and views. We appreciate your valued feedback.

[ju55dk]

I can't see anywhere in the article wich renowned researcher has contributed, but it's still pure fantasy, on the part of Schmid. And you keep up this nonsens, about his name being Heinrich. No German record has this name. I have his service records, Verlustmeldung and Flugbuch, all having his correct name. Also his award certificate from Spain states Herbert.
What I can see is that some statements in the article stems from me, written on this forum, without any credit at all.

Junker

[edNorth]

Also, "construction details" in the article (post#1) on this aircraft are all wrong, except stating it was conversion (obvious as these were not series produuced).
Then I refer to what Mr. Simpson (had?) has on RAFM website. This he said in inquiry was "second source". Excuse for making some, I suspect. "All dataplates had been removed" said RAFM (Mr. Simpson) to me in a letter inquiry, yet there is picture of one inside the canopy in "Aero detail" book, unless removed by museum staff since.

[alanatabz]

Hi all, can anybody support this?

in a book by "A great coup" by Robert Hill.

"Kantwill did not co-operate and was incarcerated as a POW until 1948, where he became a waiter then flower seller. He returned home to Dortmund in 1950. Finding things had changed with his wife and daughter, he moved to Canada then to the USA before disappearing off the radar.

Schmid returned to Germany post-war, flew as a civil pilot and retired when he was 60 leaving Bonn for possibly the USA.

Rosenberger is believed to have assumed a new identify and moved to France. They were all given pensions by the British Government."

[Delmenhorst]

'The great coup' is a fantacy book with a lot of fairytale and very little substance. It was written in the 70'ies by Robert Hill, who only had a few reports from Kew and 'hear say' to build his book on. The British side of the book is fairly ok, but not the German part.

[alanatabz]

I haven't seen the book, to credibility wise it appears it's speculation again.

I was trying summarise what the crew did after the war, but as ever there are several versions.

http://www.aircrewremembered.com/sch...defection.html

In the link above the picture of "RAF Officers inspect the Ju 88" noticeably there are no antennas.

Does anybody have info on the Beaufighter that crashed on route (mentioned by Charles Taylor)

[Rainer]

Originally Posted by alanatabz

"Kantwill did not co-operate and was incarcerated as a POW until 1948, where he became a waiter then flower seller. He returned home to Dortmund in 1950. Finding things had changed with his wife and daughter, he moved to Canada then to the USA before disappearing off the radar.

Erich Karl Kantwill was born on 26 May 1915 in Ende, Landkreis Hagen, Germany as son of Ephraim Kantwill and Johanna E. Brüggemann (according to the U.S. Social Security Applications and Claims Index). He became a Naturalised British Subject on 17 Oct 1951 (see http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ls/r/C12002683) and married Olive P. Jones (or Saul or Hansen) at Westminster in early 1952 (according to the England & Wales Civil Registration Marriage Index). He began to use the alias Alfred Hansen in the UK and eventually emigrated with his wife to Canada, leaving Southampton aboard the ATLANTIC bound for Quebec on 16 July 1952. (the passenger list shows his profession as aircraft engineer and their address in the UK was 33 Belsize Park Gardens, Hampstead, London, NW3). The couple moved to California about 1957 and he died in San Luis Obispo on 8 March 1993. His wife Olive Hansen (born 20 Feb 1919) died in Salinas on 19 Mar 2008.