Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 2nd October 2009, 02:06
Mark McShane Mark McShane is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 61
Mark McShane is on a distinguished road
Re: KG40 & Convoy HX.84 November 1940

Irish registered ships stopped sailing in convoy from 1942 onwards, sailing in convoy did not preclude the irish ships from attack. An example of this is Clonlara who was sunk while sailing in convoy OG-71. In order to ensure their safety the german legation was informed of all Irish registered ships trading and what routes they where on. This system however was not perfect however as three Irish ships would be torpedoed during 1942 & 1943.

The British government had also to be informed, as the Irish ships were required to hold a Navicert if they were trading with Spain & Portugal. They had a no go zone in Biscay that they had to keep out of. Kerlogue ventured into this area and was attacked by the RAF.

Aircraft attacks on Irish registered ships occurred throughout late 1940 and 1941. The Isolda mentioned above also had EIRE painted on the ships side and was still attacked. I interviewed the last survivor from this hip and he said that he thought they were attacked because they were flying the Trinity house flag from the fore mast (it included a union jack). The luftwaffe didn't seem to be too hot on ship and nationality recognition as they also attacked an Italian ship off the kent coast in april 1940, Italy was still neutral at this time.

Regards,

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2nd October 2009, 12:24
Tony Kearns Tony Kearns is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 302
Tony Kearns
Re: KG40 & Convoy HX.84 November 1940

Thank you Coldmeter for that excellent additional input, I do have to disagree with you that Isolda had the identification EIRE on the sides of the vessel. It did not, what it had was, the words LIGHTSHIPS SERVICE on both sides of the vessel.
Regards
Tony K
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 3rd October 2009, 09:59
Mark McShane Mark McShane is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 61
Mark McShane is on a distinguished road
Re: KG40 & Convoy HX.84 November 1940

Tony,

I'm just going on what Sam Williams, who was galley boy onboard Isolda at the time told me. According toSam EIRE was painted on the side.

Regards,

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 3rd October 2009, 14:42
Brian Brian is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posts: 3,972
Brian is on a distinguished road
Re: KG40 & Convoy HX.84 November 1940

Thanks for your help, Tony & Mark

Much appreciated.

Cheers
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 4th October 2009, 00:36
Tony Kearns Tony Kearns is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 302
Tony Kearns
Re: KG40 & Convoy HX.84 November 1940

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldmeter View Post
Tony,

I'm just going on what Sam Williams, who was galley boy onboard Isolda at the time told me. According toSam EIRE was painted on the side.

Regards,

Mark
Mark, I always find that it is a delicate matter to query the details when recalled by a veteran, but the fact is the ship was identified in the German report...single report n.r. 2 of 19.12.40 as Lighthouses (sic) Service attacked with 6 SC 250 bombs.
The Condor was flying at 50 ft most of the time. The Coast watchers along the coast were looking down at it from some LOPs as it passed from north to south. The Isolda flew the Irish Flag on leaving harbour but took it down once it passed outside the three mile territorial limit.
Regards
Tony K
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 6th October 2009, 23:53
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,427
Stig Jarlevik will become famous soon enough
Re: KG40 & Convoy HX.84 November 1940

Brian

Your private mailbox is full, but in short I am working on it and I will get back to you when I have more complete details

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 7th October 2009, 17:00
Brian Brian is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posts: 3,972
Brian is on a distinguished road
Re: KG40 & Convoy HX.84 November 1940

Hi Stig

Thanks for the nod. Should be OK now.

Cheers

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 7th October 2009, 17:31
Nokose's Avatar
Nokose Nokose is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,727
Nokose will become famous soon enough
Re: KG40 & Convoy HX.84 November 1940

Brian,
It probably had something to do with the type cargo that they were carrying and where they were going. I've read that neutral ships still ran during the night with all their running lights on and from many accounts U-Boats and surface raiders made no attempt to stop them. If they were stopped and there was contraband on the the manifest it wasn't a good thing for them. Also sailing alone on prearranged route didn't mean much as the British merchant fleet still ran fast single ships and would probably be sent along these same routes. The book about U-Boat ace Otto Kretschmer described searching neutral ships traveling in 1939 and 1940 coming from Sweden. The Germans at that time hadn't perfected their contraband list and gave their cargo as "Lumber" which wasn't on the list.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 7th October 2009, 20:14
Brian Brian is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posts: 3,972
Brian is on a distinguished road
Re: KG40 & Convoy HX.84 November 1940

Hi Nokose

Thanks for your input. Unfortunately for neutral ships there wasn't much chance of stop and search when being attacked by a Heinkel, FW200 or Ju88! Did Swedish ships have 'SWEDEN' painted on their sides?

Cheers
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 7th October 2009, 20:48
Nokose's Avatar
Nokose Nokose is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,727
Nokose will become famous soon enough
Re: KG40 & Convoy HX.84 November 1940

Brian,
No, it wouldn't help with aircraft attack. Most news reels that I've seen the attack came from the stern unless it was a torpedo or stuka attack. I don't have a lot of my U-Boat books anymore but I believe they were painted white or light color with a large flag of the country painted on the sides with the name above the flag.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Friendly fire WWII Brian Allied and Soviet Air Forces 802 17th January 2023 10:55
Wellington loss 7 November 1940 Brian Allied and Soviet Air Forces 6 31st August 2009 14:35
Stab./KG26 anderbe Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 25 28th March 2009 09:45
Book on French AF 1939-40? The_Catman Allied and Soviet Air Forces 68 10th August 2008 16:58
Fighter pilots' guts Hawk-Eye Allied and Soviet Air Forces 44 8th April 2005 15:25


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net