R-3?

[Nokose]

In Prien's JFV 6/I there are many claims for a Soviet aircraft classified as "R-3". I tried to find an R-3 online but found nothing. On the 9 Nov 1941 Obfw. Werner Bielefedt 7./JG 51 shot down a R-3 (20) 09:10 no location listed but it was probably in the region to the west of Moscow. So does anyone know anything about this bomber?

[kirche]

R-3 www.airwar.ru/enc/other1/r3.html
but this is a mistake of identification. it claims to R-5 or R-Z (from rus "Р-Зет").

[Nokose]

Kirche, Spasibo. The size of the aircraft claimed by Bielfedt (unless he was mistaken) hardly matches a DB-3. I was looking at DB-3 (#391708) 7 DBAP flown by Akulichev (survived) that went down on 09 Nov 1941 09:50 - ? (Moscow) near Naro - Fominsk after an attack by three Bf 109. There are no other claims that day except JG 77 which were in the Crimea. Another mystery left open from missing German records.

[udf_00]

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showpo...6&postcount=22

[Nokose]

I found my mistake in reading the article again. Akulichev returned to his unit on the 09 Nov 1941. The bomber was actually shot down on the 06 Nov 1941. That leaves three possible victors in this dogfight. 6./JG 51 Fw. Richard Quante DB-3 (16) 10:05, 6./JG 51 Fw. Walter Kabis DB-3 (2) 10:10 and 5./JG 51 Lt. Hans Strelow DB-3 (22) 10:13 but all have no location for their claims. Also there is no mention of any other losses so it is not possible to tell if this was an isolated claim or more then one loss to this group. Thanks to all for the help.

[kirche]

Hi Michael,
DB-3а No. 1708 (Akulichev-Lisyansky-Volkov-Orumbaev) was really shot down on 6 November 1941. But also on this day in the same area another MIA DB-3F from 53 DBAP the same division. Area combat missions of these machines one - Dorokhovo-Mozhaysk.

If the index "R-3" the Germans called Il-2, I don't know why... German pilots were familiar with Soviet planes of the 30-ies - they were trained on them. They had to know the real R-3 (light biplane scout). In 1941 they could name so similar to him planes (R-5, R-Z, R-5SSS or U-2). In 1941, during the day VVS used a lot of R-5 as a light assault aircraft (there were a lot of losses). Then these regiments received Il-2.

The origin versions of "V-11" and "Vultee" is due to the fact that the concept of "assault plane" was taken on the basis of this American aircraft, but his Soviet counterpart BSh-1, and further development of the theme of "Ivanov" has led to the emergence of the Su-2. Su-2 externally similar to the Vultee V-11G. Perhaps the name of the "Vultee" and "V-11" is the Su-2?
Prototypes of Il-2 was called in the USSR - TSKB-55, TSKB-57, BSh-2

Best regards,
Kirill

[Dénes Bernád]

I would also say 'R-3' actually means R-Z, as the Cyrillic Z resembles the numeral 3.

[Larry]

And nothing to do with this type I presume?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polikarpov_R-Z