Bär's Me 262 at Innsbruck-Hotting?

[Karoband]

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1651

Obstltn. Heinz Bär seems to have had an affinity to the number "13". This photo shows Bär with his FW 190.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1652

When Bär was appointed Kommandeur of III./EJG 2 on 13 Feb. 1945 (01.01.45?) [de Zeng & Stankey], he had Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 110559 numbered "red 13" as his personal aircraft. Since III./EJG 2 was a training unit the number was placed on the fuselage ahead of the cockpit.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1653

This is from page 197 of RL 7-6/25 in the online Bundesarchiv. It is page two of the strength return reported by Lw. Kdo West and included by Gen. Kdo. VIII Flg. Korps at 18:00 hours on 23 April 1945. III./EJG 2 seems to have become "J.G. Baer" with 16 Me 262s and 9 pilots. As a fighter unit, its kennzeichen would be placed forward of the balkenkreuz on the rear fuselage. "J.G. Baer" appears again in the strength return of 24 April (RL 7-6/25, p. 372) but is missing in that of 25 April (RL 7-6/25, p. 373) and appears to have been absorbed by "J.G. 44"[sic]. Indeed, in the pilots list of JV 44 from 27 April (RL 7-6/26, pp. 299-300), ten of them are from III./EJG 2 including Bär.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1654

From Dan O'Connell, Me 262 The Production Log, (Classic, 2005), p. 140:
111857 Me 262 A-1a ... Later listed on the inventory of JV 44 on 26 April 1945. Found at Innsbruck Hotting at the end of the war. Ferried from München-Riem by Obstlt. Heinz Bär on 1 or 2 May 1945. Previous reports have recorded this aircraft as "white 5", but there is no photographic evidence of it on either side of the aircraft ...".
To my eyes, this photo of W.Nr. 111857 has an overpainted dark "13" on the rear fuselage just forward of the balkenkreuz.

Could this be Bär's Me 262? And why would it be overpainted?

best regards,

Jim

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Karoband

When Bär was appointed Kommandeur of III./EJG 2 on 13 Feb. 1945 (01.01.45?) [de Zeng & Stankey], he had Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 110559 numbered "red 13" as his personal aircraft. Since III./EJG 2 was a training unit the number was placed on the fuselage ahead of the cockpit.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1653

This is from page 197 of RL 7-6/25 in the online Bundesarchiv. It is page two of the strength return reported by Lw. Kdo West and included by Gen. Kdo. VIII Flg. Korps at 18:00 hours on 23 April 1945. III./EJG 2 seems to have become "J.G. Baer" with 16 Me 262s and 9 pilots. As a fighter unit, its Kennzeichen would be placed forward of the Balkenkreuz on the rear fuselage. "J.G. Baer" appears again in the strength return of 24 April (RL 7-6/25, p. 372) but is missing in that of 25 April (RL 7-6/25, p. 373) and appears to have been absorbed by "J.G. 44"[sic]. Indeed, in the pilots list of JV 44 from 27 April (RL 7-6/26, pp. 299-300), ten of them are from III./EJG 2 including Bär.

best regards,

Jim

I don't know whether the status of III./EJG 2 had anything to do with where the number was placed, or whether the nose section was simply the largest available space on a new type of aircraft. The practice began with Erprobungskommando 262 and continued after it was renamed III./EJG 2. The same thing was done by 1./NAGr. 1 on its Me 262s and the reconnaissance machines found at Lechfeld (see my article in Axis Wings Vol. 2, October 2024).

I suspect that "JG Baer" was never an official name, but more a case of the people compiling the strength figures not knowing what they should call it.

In RL 2-II/389 the last recorded III./EJG 2 operation is on 19 April while RL 7-6/25 (page 0314) has III./EJG 2 "being brought up" to Lechfeld on 23 April and JV 44 to München-Riem.

In Bundesarchiv RL 7-6/26 (page 0103) there is a telegram from Luftflotte 6 to Lw.Kdo. West dated 26 April 1945:

Report immediately by telegram on the basis of which orders III./(Erg.)JG 2 was disbanded. If orders for disbandment were given before the command was taken over by Lfl.Kdo. 6, report whether OKL consent was given.

Another telegram the same day (same file, pages 0080–0084) gives locations of Lfl. 6 units and JV 44 is included but III./EJG 2 isn't.

A list of Lfl. 6 unit locations for 7 May 1945 (RL 2-VI/203, page 0016) has JV 44 at Salzburg -Maxglan but no mention of III./EJG 2. On page 0018, all the Gruppen of EJG 2 except the III. are shown as disbanded on 25 April. Page 0070 of the same file "Overview of Erganzungs Units of the Flying Formations" as of 19 Mai 1945 gives the location of III./EJG 2 as "unknown". My reading of all this is that JV 44 swallowed up III./EJG 2, apparently without proper authorisation, possibly on 25 April. JV 44 evacuated Riem on the 29th.

Finally, white 1 of III./EJG 2 was also found at Innsbruck. It had its number on the nose and a narrow yellow band aft of the cockpit.

[Karoband]

Hi Nick,

I am looking forward to reading your article in Axis Wings. I concur that III./EJG 2 was assimilated without authorization by JV 44 and that Bär considered himself as directly subordinate to Galland. If 111857 had been an aircraft of III./EJG 2 and the white engine cowls suggest this, the "narrow yellow band aft of the cockpit" had to have been overpainted before the "1" of the "13" was painted on the starboard side.

best regards,

Jim

[Matolion]

I don't understand. No number was painted on 111857. White 1 was WNr.170047 (ex III./EJG 2) which landed in Innsbruck-Reichenau and not Innsbruck-Hotting

[Matolion]

The white color of the engine cowls (111857) can be disputed, it looks more like silver in the color photo. It looks like replacing the covers and leaving it in the original base color

https://i.imgur.com/Ioi2mVx.jpg

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Karoband

Hi Nick,

I am looking forward to reading your article in Axis Wings. I concur that III./EJG 2 was assimilated without authorization by JV 44 and that Bär considered himself as directly subordinate to Galland.

best regards,

Jim

Just to add to that impression, RL 2-III/69 (page 0289) includes lists of units disbanded from 10–30 April 1945 and III./EJG 2 is not there although the other Gruppen of the Geschwader are.

[Karoband]

Hi Matolion,

Please look at the fourth picture in my first post. My problem is that I think I can see an overpainted "13" in front of the balkenkreuz on W.Nr. 111857. Whether white or silver on both cowls, this is consistent with some of the Me 262s in the classic photos of the III./EJG 2 line-up at Lechfeld. Conversely, I have never seen a photo of the JV 44 line-up at Riem with a Me 262 having such cowls. If 111857 is an ex-III./EJG 2 machine, and if I am correct about the "13", is it Bär's aircraft? And why would the "13" be overpainted? Am I just seeing things?

best regards,

Jim

[Matolion]

Yes, on that picture from fold3.com it appears that something was painted over. Unfortunately, it is no longer visible in other pictures of the machine, but it can be seen that something of the front part was repainted/repaired. The machine looks like it has been repaired more often

Your picture on fold3.com
https://www.fold3.com/image/29021898...t?terms=me,262

Stains on the front of the machine
https://i.imgur.com/4SuX0ln.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Gc5aCkp.jpg

[Karoband]

Originally Posted by Matolion

Yes, on that picture from fold3.com it appears that something was painted over. Unfortunately, it is no longer visible in other pictures of the machine, but it can be seen that something of the front part was repainted/repaired. The machine looks like it has been repaired more often

Your picture on fold3.com
https://www.fold3.com/image/29021898...t?terms=me,262

Stains on the front of the machine
https://i.imgur.com/4SuX0ln.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Gc5aCkp.jpg

Thanks for the great pictures, Matolion. It may be that the "white 5" mentioned by O'Connell is that "something on the front part".

[Matolion]

Yes, it is possible. If it was previously a III./EJG 2 machine, then the position of the painted number (if it was a number) would correspond

https://i.imgur.com/Zqw4CKI.jpg