Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 25th October 2007, 00:18
filmstar filmstar is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4
filmstar is on a distinguished road
Major Von Graff - German Ace - Christian Martell

Hi All

I am currently looking at the career of Frenchman Commandant Christian Martell and one of his crowning achievements is the aerial victory over a German ace, Major Von Graff but all I can discover is that a Major Hermann Graf crashed as a result of colliding with a P51 Mustang on 23/03/1944. Have I got the wrong Von Graff? or has Wikipedia got the story wrong? The story I am referring to is in the following website on Martell and I would appreciate any help in finding the correct Von Graff if this is not the one.

http://www.ordredelaliberation.fr/fr_compagnon/653.html


Many thanks in advance,
Russ
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 25th October 2007, 00:35
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,866
Jim P. is on a distinguished road
Re: Major Von Graff - German Ace - Christian Martell

There is no documented 'von Graff' that was an ace or a fighter pilot for that matter. Hermann Graf maybe. There are certainly, along with Hermann, a number of Grafs, Gräfs, Grafes, Gräfes, Graffs, Gräffs & Graefs listed amongst documented losses & claims, a few of whom were 'aces', the highest scorer in my data, other than Hermann, being a Kurt Graf with 16 claims from JG 51. Take your pick.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 25th October 2007, 10:39
filmstar filmstar is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4
filmstar is on a distinguished road
Re: Major Von Graff - German Ace - Christian Martell

Hi Jim,

I know about Herman Graf but it seems unlikely he was the Graff (Graf) shot down by Martell since it appears to be well documented that he was in a collision with a P51. The information I have on Martell is a bit sketchy and all in French so which Graff it is I don't know. I do not even have a date for the victory.

Many thanks for your help however,

Russ
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 25th October 2007, 11:29
FalkeEins's Avatar
FalkeEins FalkeEins is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Hauts-de-France
Posts: 730
FalkeEins is on a distinguished road
Re: Major Von Graff - German Ace - Christian Martell

Quote:
Originally Posted by filmstar View Post
The information I have on Martell is a bit sketchy and all in French so which Graff it is I don't know.
not Clostermann's "memoir" again
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 25th October 2007, 13:53
filmstar filmstar is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4
filmstar is on a distinguished road
Re: Major Von Graff - German Ace - Christian Martell

Nope,

Nothing whatsoever to do with Clostermann,

I am researching the crash site and susequent death of Christian Martell at RAF Ouston of in August 1945. Together with the circumstances of the crash I was keen to look at the career and record of Martell.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 25th October 2007, 14:27
Peter Kassak's Avatar
Peter Kassak Peter Kassak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 903
Peter Kassak is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Major Von Graff - German Ace - Christian Martell

Does not Chroster Bergstroom mentions this in his book Graf Grislawski???
I think I have heard/read this matching somewhere already...
__________________
Peter Kassak
peterkassak (aT) gmail.com
http://www.airwarsk.sk


also: Zerstorer Research Work Group,
"Geschichte des Zerstörergeschwader 76 (Zweite Aufstellung 1943-45)"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 25th October 2007, 17:11
Cpt_Farrel Cpt_Farrel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 193
Cpt_Farrel is on a distinguished road
Re: Major Von Graff - German Ace - Christian Martell

Bergström has dedicated an appendix about this in his book about Graf and Grislawski and as I recall it, no wellknown aces were shot down on the day (or days around) the date mentioned in Clostermanns book as the date of Martell's victory.

By the way, I got the impression from some earlier discussion on the subject that Martell wasn't his real name - or did I get that wrong somehow?

/Anders
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 25th October 2007, 17:40
Fairlop's Avatar
Fairlop Fairlop is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Liberec, Czech republic
Posts: 574
Fairlop
Re: Major Von Graff - German Ace - Christian Martell

Hi Anders,

His real name was Lucien Montet.

Regards,
Michal
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
German Ace: Ludwig Meister Wayne Welford Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 5 27th March 2008 10:11
60 years after German KL Auchwitz-Birkenau Mirek Wawrzynski The Second World War in General 10 7th January 2008 15:20
My library - you rate it! generalderpanzertruppen Books and Magazines 8 24th November 2007 02:36
German Fighter Ace - Hans-Joachim Marseille Uncle Sam Books and Magazines 0 24th May 2007 15:18
Foundation for German communication and related technologies rob van den nieuwendijk Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 4th May 2007 23:57


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net