44-14036 in 364th FG, picture...still needed

[Flyingkag]

Hi all,

A very, very old quest, allredy 6 years tracking that plane...!!!

Maybe it was never photographiated ??? I cannot believe it!

So, I try again, totaly desperated!!!

Do maybe a 364th FG fan have somewhere seen a pict showing 44-14036 as probably flying in the 364th FG injuly/august 1944?

I have investigated about his loss wiyh Lt Skenyon, on november 25th 1944 with the 162nd TRS, but am still searching a pict of the plane...even before its transfer to the 162nd, and never succeeded!

Thanks for any possible help!

best feelings from France,

Mathias

[Revi16]

Here's 105 pictures associated with the 364th FG,
http://www.fold3.com/search.php?f_an...g&query%5B2%5D=

Here's 580 pictures associated with the 364th Fighter Group,
http://www.fold3.com/search.php?f_an...r&query%5B2%5D=

[Larry]

Forgive me for saying this - It occurred to me when reading your post that you have not said what type of aircraft it was or even which Sqn it was within the 364th FG.

Obviously I know it is a P51 Mustang.

How about giving details of the Sqn markings and the codes if you know it (for both units).

I'm sure other members will agree that we sometimes have a photographic memory for photos we have in our archives and books and with a bit of time can locate them - so the more you give the better chance there is to get that photo. I'll happily look through all my 8th AF books for you.

[Flyingkag]

Hey,

thanks for your kind help and answers (links).

Larry; I would have given more...if I had known more about that plane.

yes, I did forget to give some helping (basic) elements:

44-14036 was a P51 D, arrived in ETO in july 1944.

Later (sept 44) it was transformed to the F-6 photo version as transfered to the 162nd TRS. (former 382nd FS). It seems that plane came not from the 382nd FS but from another unit.

It apperad that a maintenance card should have let us mean that that plane had served in 364th FG before, but no squadron is identified, and no individual lettering. Sorry. And lots of the narrow serials were affected to that unit (but that is no evidence!).

I have searched about 5 years for finding one pict as it was allredy in the 162nd TRS, but it seems that the bad weather in sept/nov 1944 and fiew mission flown had let just very fiew photos of the 162nd TRS planes in late 1944.

Most existing picts are taken in early and mid 1945...as 44-14036 was allredy MIA and destroyed (25 nov 1944).

So 44-14036 still stays "never seen" on pictures for me.

Thanks again!

Mathias

[Flyingkag]

44-14036 is supposed haning been used in the 364th FG.

Considering the relatively important number of "narrow" serials having been in the 385th FS, (44-14023, 44-14025, 44-14033, 44-14035), I would have a kind of "preference" or priority for searching my 44-14036 in that one squadron, the 385th FS.

...but that is just a kind of "feeling" that that plane should have been here (I know that there is no real "logic" to search in the planes assignations in several squadrons...).

Mathias

[Peter Randall]

Mathias, it is incorrect to form your assumptions in that manner. For a start, 44-14023 was in fact with the 505th FS, 339th FG as George Rich's 6N-H "Chute You're Faded".

If you look at the allocations immediately before 44-14036, these were:
44-14031 5Y-P with the 384th
44-14032 5Y-W with the 384th
44-14033 5E-M with the 385th
44-14034 5Y-U with the 384th and
44-14035 5E-A with the 385th

As far as 44-14036 is concerned, the only thing linking it to the 364th FG is a record on an early return due to mechanical problems on 10 September. No squadron, code letter or pilot being identified. It seems to me somewhat coincidental that both this aircraft and the next in sequence 44-14037 were "Issued to Group" on the same day - 23 July, and 44-14037 is recorded as flying its first combat mission on 10 September - the same day as the problem recorded with 14036. It looks to me as there might well have been a clerical error as far as 14036's service with the 364th is concerned, particularly as 14037 was with the 160th TRS, 363rd TRG. If 14036 did serve at all with the 364th, it can only have had a very short operational life with them seeing as it was lost on 25 November with 363rd TRG. So, if it did serve with the 364th, the short time scale for operational service might well explain the absence of any photo during its time there. In my opinion, for what it's worth, I think that it only ever served with the 162nd TRS 363rd TRG.

Peter

[Flyingkag]

Hey Peter,

thanks for your interesting and detailled answer. I believe you are probably right.

On MACR of 44-14036, it is given as P51D-F-6D, so it had been converted to the photo standart. That would probably have been decided as the new recce groups were created (3rd September concerning the 363nd TRG).

So the mechanical return on september 10th should concern the transformation to the F-6D standart, not true?

That could have let a 6 or 8 weeks long time for a use in the 364th FG, but sure they had other thinsg to do than making pictures in the "hot" summer 1944!!!

I will soon share a list of the 162nd TRS planes with lettering and serials in late 1944/early 1945, from C3-A to C3-Z, that I have reconstituted for some years. Still working on it about some (rare) "missing ones".