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  #1  
Old 5th December 2017, 17:23
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Fronterprobungskommando 262?

Good morning,

From Luftwaffe Officer Career Summaries:

Re: BRUECKER, Heinrich

"... 25.01.45 retraining at Neuburg/a.D., then appt. Fuehrer of Fronterprobungskommandos Me 262 under Gen. d. Schlachtflieger (to 05.05.45)..."

Does anyone have information about this unit?

best regards,

Jim
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Old 5th December 2017, 19:16
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: Fronterprobungskommando 262?

Good afternoon,


The closest mention of something like this is referred to as the "Erprobungsschwarm Me 262 des Generals der Schlachtflieger." The story is told in this book:


http://www.christian-schmidt.com/pro...39&language=en



Regards,
Ed
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Old 5th December 2017, 20:10
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is online now
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Re: Fronterprobungskommando 262?

Quote:
appt. Fuehrer of Fronterprobungskommandos Me 262 under Gen. d. Schlachtflieger (to 05.05.45)..."
That's a new one on me, too. Erprobungskommando 262 was officially disbanded on 2 November 1944, according to the authoritative book by Beauvais, p.288, when its training and evaluation component was used to form III./Erg.JG 2.

Speculating, I wonder if this had something to do with Hitler's insistence that the Me 262 be used as a Jabo (Jagdbomber)? If so, a small E-Kdo. might have bee set up to evaluate its performance at the front as a fighter-bomber.

L.
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Old 5th December 2017, 20:28
Karoband Karoband is offline
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Re: Fronterprobungskommando 262?

Hi Larry,

That's what I'm thinking too.

Hi Ed,

That's great because I read your blurb last month and put in my order. Gabi shipped it last Monday so I'm looking forward to reading about it.
Thank you, again.

Jim
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Old 5th December 2017, 20:44
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: Fronterprobungskommando 262?

Hi Jim,


You're welcome. Let us know if the book is worth buying.





Best,
Ed
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Old 6th December 2017, 02:08
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John Vasco John Vasco is offline
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Re: Fronterprobungskommando 262?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry deZeng View Post
Speculating, I wonder if this had something to do with Hitler's insistence that the Me 262 be used as a Jabo (Jagdbomber)? If so, a small E-Kdo. might have bee set up to evaluate its performance at the front as a fighter-bomber.

L.
What you mention above is exactly what happened.

Two 'Kommando's were set up in 1944:
Kommando Nowotny to trial the 262 fighter and bring it up to service status; and
Kommando Schenck to trial the 262 fighter-bomber and bring it up to service status.

Schenck then went on to be Geschwaderkommodore of Kampfgeschwader 51 (J), flying 40 fighter-bomber missions in the 262.

Source: my interview with Wolfgang Schenck.
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Old 6th December 2017, 15:29
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is online now
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Re: Fronterprobungskommando 262?

John -

Thanks for your thoughts on this. But we may be talking about two different animals here because Kommando Schenck had no presence in 1945, having been disbanded before that.

Einsatzkommando/KG 51
Also as: Einsatzkommando 51
Sonderkommando E-51
Kommando Schenck
Kommando Edelweiss


Formation. (Jun 44 - Jul 44)
Formed 2 June 1944 at Lechfeld from pilots belonging to 3.St./KG 51 who began retraining on the Messerschmitt Me 262 jet and then placed under the command of Maj. Wolfgang Schenck (RK, EL) as the first operational Me 262 fighter-bomber unit.

West - Fighter-Bomber Operations in France and Holland. (Jul 44 - Nov 44)
20-27 Jul 44: transferred from Lechfeld to Châteaudun in France; while there only 3 or 4 of the Me 262s were serviceable due to Allied fighter-bomber attacks on fuel and spare parts stocks.
12 Aug 44: transferred to Étampes and then to Creil on 15 Aug from where a few sorties were flown.
23 Aug 44: withdrew east to Juvincourt and while there received 5 replacement Me 262s from Lechfeld; on 28 Aug the Kdo. flew 4 missions with 7 Me 262s against Allied troop concentrations, hitting the targets with cluster bombs, and then struck other targets at Melun near Paris.
28 Aug 44: transferred to Chièvres/Belgium, then to Volkel/Holland on 30 Aug and on to Rheine in NW Germany on 4 Sep.
Sep - Oct 44: flew numerous fighter-bomber missions during Sep and Oct, hitting the key bridges at Nijmegen, forward Allied airfields at Eindhoven, Chièvres and Grave/S of Nijmegen, where 35 Spitfires were destroyed on the ground on 2 Oct, and assorted other targets in the area of 1st Canadian and 2d British Armies. Operations were intense as German air and ground forces attempted to destroy Allied airborne units dropped at Arnhem and Nijmegen on 17 Sep (Operation “Market Garden”). Losses during the period were moderate: on 8 and 9 Sep two Me 262s were shot down by AA fire over NE Belgium; Hptm. Hans-Christof Buttmann was shot down and killed by a flight of Spitfires over Nijmegen on 5 Oct; another was downed by a U.S. P-47 near Rheine on 6 Oct and several more were lost later in the month.
2 Nov 44: flew an attack on Allied airfields in Holland, this mission being the last recorded before it was incorporated back into I./KG 51 at Rheine and thereby lost its separate identity.


FpN: (same as for 3./KG 51)

Kommandeur:
Maj. Wolfgang Schenck (RK, EL) (c. 2 Jun 44 - c. 2 Nov 44)

Sources for KG 51

Archival and Unpublished:
BA-MA Freiburg: RL 2 III Gen.Qu.(6.Abt.) Meldungen über Flugzeugunfälle und Verluste…(LRs – Loss Reports).

Published:
[Balke – KG2]
[Brütting – BA]
[Carlsen – TS2]p.405, 422-23
[Dierich – KG51]
[Dierich – VdL]
[Foreman – Me 262 Combat Diary]p.32-60
[Jurleit – Strahljäger Me 262 im Einsatz]p.21-39, 153-55
[Kannapin – FPN]
[Mason – BovB]
[Ramsey – B-2]
[Ramsey – B-3]
[Shores – Fledgling Eagles]
[Shores – Yugo]
[Tessin – Tes]

Flugzeug 6/90: 51-52
Flugzeug 6/91: 51-55


© H.L. deZeng IV, 2003
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  #8  
Old 6th December 2017, 17:17
Denniss Denniss is offline
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Re: Fronterprobungskommando 262?

https://books.google.de/books?id=y1i...inrich&f=false


Osprey JV44-squadron of experten-book book claims Brücker was in charge of I./KG51 Me 262s by 23 April 45 and this was a bomber unit retrained (or stil retraining) on the Me 262.
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Old 6th December 2017, 20:31
Karl Karl is offline
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Re: Fronterprobungskommando 262?

it seems that every Luftwaffe section had its own "Erprobungskommando" to test the Me262:
-"General der Jagdflieger" (fighter): Erprobungskommando 262
-"General der Kampfflieger" (bomber): Erprobungskommando 51 ("Edelweiss")
-"General der Aufklärer" (reconnaissance): Erprobungskommando Braunegg
- General der Schlachtflieger" (close support/ground attack):Erprobungsschwarm Me 262 des Generals der Schlachtflieger. A Schwarm being a four aircraft formation.
Major Bruecker trained in Neuburg on Me262s belonging to IV/EKG1 (last entry in his Flugbuch is 14. February 1945, flying "9K+12W"). Later on, Major Bruecker joined JV44. He can be seen on some photos with other JV44 members at Munich-Riem in April 45.
Best regards, Karl
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Old 6th December 2017, 23:14
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John Vasco John Vasco is offline
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Re: Fronterprobungskommando 262?

Larry,
I was simply replying to this that you posted: "...If so, a small E-Kdo. might have bee(n) set up to evaluate its performance at the front as a fighter-bomber..."

I was showing that it not a case of 'might have been' re the 262 fighter-bomber, but actually did take place. That's all.
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