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  #41  
Old 12th May 2022, 10:05
Peter T Peter T is offline
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Re: Analysing survival rates among Luftwaffe air crew in 'Steinbock' and other operations

I fear it’s difficult to compare the Steinbock losses to other campaigns. The main problem is the far from complete loss record for 1944. Several crews made it across the Channel with badly damaged planes, baling out, belly landing or even landing on an airfield with a plane ready to scrap. If nobody was seriously wounded, then there is no trace in the loss lists. Including these would change the statistics and conclusions.
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  #42  
Old 12th May 2022, 10:55
Simon Trew Simon Trew is offline
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Re: Analysing survival rates among Luftwaffe air crew in 'Steinbock' and other operations

Peter - It is difficult to disagree with you in some ways. But it depends on what one is interested in. The Luftflotte 3 daily loss tables don't specify whether a plane was 15% or 60% damaged, but they do at least make a distinction between missing/destroyed and damaged. They also provide fairly granular data according to type of plane and quite a wide variety of circumstances in which the plane was destroyed or damaged. I'd agree that it is a frustrating task, but when that information is combined with a reasonably wide range of other sources, including authors writing in at least three different languages about unit histories and associated topics, and intelligence records, I'd describe the record as patchy and incomplete rather than as being so thin as to render any meaningful comment impossible. For example, it seems that one could draw firmer conclusions about losses in KG 2 than in KG 30. Or say a bit more about KG 6 than I/KG 40??

Anyway, I can only try my best. Ever tried. Ever failed.... Fail better.
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  #43  
Old 31st May 2022, 16:09
Simon Trew Simon Trew is offline
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Re: Analysing survival rates among Luftwaffe air crew in 'Steinbock' and other operations

On the subject of experience among Steinbock officers:

Hauptmann Anton Öben was the most senior Steinbock prisoner. Born on 10 February 1914, he was Staffelkapitan of 6./KG 6 when shot down late on 24 March 1944. His plane at that time was a Ju 88, 3E+AP. He was the only survivor.

I don't seem to be able to find him at https://ww2.dk/Lw%20Offz%20-%20L-R%20Apr%202022.pdf and a search of this forum under his name doesn't appear to return any hits. So hopefully some of this is new information, for anybody who might be interested.

According to interrogation report ADI(K) 140, 25 March 1944 (TNA AIR 40/2416), Öben was very uncooperative when interrogated. Luckily, he was garrulous when talking with fellow prisoners and SRA transcripts from extracts of some his conversations in AIR 40/3094 are informative on many matters.

SRA 5162 (information of 14 April 1944) - if he is to believed - provide information about his career:

He decided to become a pilot in 1938, but didn't actually become one until early 1940.
He says he was on a Geschwader staff in 1940. He says he flew as an observer throughout the Polish campaign and part of the 'French campaign'.

When asked by the U-boat officer to whom he was talking whether he had flown a "colossal number of warflights", his reply was as follows:

"No, I was temporarily taken off operations to become a tactical instructor, owing to the experience I had gained in the sorties. In all, I had taken part in fifty sorties, no more. I have flown all different types."

Interesting that he was a Staffelkapitän despite not a vast amount of operational experience. His (dead) observer held the silver war flights badge and his (dead) wireless operator held the gold war flights badge. Öben and these two men all held the EK 1.
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  #44  
Old 31st May 2022, 16:20
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Chris Goss Chris Goss is online now
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Re: Analysing survival rates among Luftwaffe air crew in 'Steinbock' and other operations

He is there:


OEBEN, Anton.01.11.43 in KG 6, promo to Hptm.29.01.44 Hptm. and Ia in Stab II./KG 6 (to
28.02.44).01.03.44 Hptm., appt Staka 6./KG 6 (to 25.03.44 POW).24/25.03.44 Hptm., II./KG 6
POW - in Ju 88 A-4 (3E+AP) shot down by Mosquito of 456 Sqdn. over Arondel in the Whitehall-
Westminster area - crashed vic Walberton near Arundel/Sussex.01.08.44 officially listed as a POW
or internee in a neutral country


50 operational flights, albeit earlier in the war, did give him a degree of experience and by 1944, they were short of such bombers pilots especially with I./KG 6 having lost its Gr Kdr and other experienced officers when bounced by 609 Sqn a few days earlier
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  #45  
Old 31st May 2022, 16:25
Simon Trew Simon Trew is offline
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Re: Analysing survival rates among Luftwaffe air crew in 'Steinbock' and other operations

Ah, that tricky umlaut - I should have been more careful.

Sorry.

Got your Do 217 book, Chris. Very nice, but had to send it back as the cover and spine were damaged in transit. Had to pay an extra £20 when I ordered it the second time (pre-order was much cheaper and for some reason I couldn't just do a straight swap). Oh well, never mind, second copy should arrive early next week. Looking forward to reading it properly rather than just skimming. Congratulations!
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  #46  
Old 31st May 2022, 16:27
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Re: Analysing survival rates among Luftwaffe air crew in 'Steinbock' and other operations

Whoever sent it should replace for free. This seems to be a common occurrence-laziness of distributors
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