Missing Airman

[BigWeeker]

Hello, Forumites
Did the RAF have a similar system to the US Missing aircrew reports (MACR)

Tia
BigWeeker

[dp_burke]

They have what is known as the AIR81 series of files, available at the UK TNA so far up to late 1941

Who is the subject of your question?

[BigWeeker]

Hello, Denis
Thank you very much for replying. I am researching the loss of Lancaster ND868 which was shot down 23/24 September, 1944. The pilot, Flt Lt S H Jones was the only survivor of the eight crew on board ( eight because there was a”second dickey on board”).
I was wondering if there was anyway of finding out the circumstances of the shoot down from any of Jones’s post war “debriefs”, either from the equivalent of an MACR or after he had been liberated as a POW.
Any pointers would be much appreciated
Regards
Andy BigWeeker

[dp_burke]

This old thread refers to this loss, it may save people looking things up for you.
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...-106-Sqn-pilot

[dp_burke]

And a thread that describes POW questionaires
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...OW-debreifings

[Horst Weber]

Originally Posted by BigWeeker

Hello, Denis
Thank you very much for replying. I am researching the loss of Lancaster ND868 which was shot down 23/24 September, 1944. The pilot, Flt Lt S H Jones was the only survivor of the eight crew on board ( eight because there was a”second dickey on board”).
I was wondering if there was anyway of finding out the circumstances of the shoot down from any of Jones’s post war “debriefs”, either from the equivalent of an MACR or after he had been liberated as a POW.
Any pointers would be much appreciated
Regards
Andy BigWeeker

Good evening

Those who were perished in this crash were initially buried in a bomb crater at Schierloh, an accumulation of wide-sped acriculture hamlets, about 2 - 3 km west of Ibbenbüren.

Rumors among whitnesses had gone around, that the aircraft suffered a midair-collision with another attacking plane. Whitnesses also state, that the bombers attacked the canal from a considerable low altitude.

There is an interesting story of two youngsters (13 and 14 years old) in the Ibbenbüren History Website. They long planned to get a machine-gun from an allied crashed aircraft, to install it at a hidden place and create a private anti-aircraft position (Boys in this age have dreams).

The description of the places and the way, they fooled the German guard to raessamble a machine gun from the aircraft traces to this crash-location. The date of the event is also given with September 23rd, 1944. Unfortunately, they give the aircraft an identification as a USAAF B-24.

On the other hand, there is no U.S. B-24 lost in the area.
The youngster reported the wreckage of the bomber as broken in two parts with indications, that a belly-landing had taken place.

Hope, this helps !

Horst Weber

[alieneyes1]

Andy,


That there were three KIA RCAF aboard this aircraft, there should have been a copy of Jones' Loss of Bomber questionnaire in at least one of their service files.


Sadly, there isn't.


Dave

[BigWeeker]

Thank you Denis for your replies - the one about prisoner interrogations particular so.
Horst: Vielen danke! It appears that the collision was between two aircraft of 463 Sqn. I have been in contact with Theo Boiten; from his book Nachtjagd, he suggested the aircraft ND868 was shot down by one of two pilots. That book was published in 2008. Subsequent research suggests the aircraft was brought down by flak. Interesting about the possibility the aircraft was crash- landed. That was my thought as well. I wonder if the post war interrogation report from the pilot, S H Jones, is available?
Best regards, All
Andy

[Icare9]

Julian, Levene, Clarke, Shepherd and Bryan were initially buried at Schierloh, near Ibbeburen, in Graves 1 to 5 respectively. McLaughlin and Isaac were buried in Graves 15 and 16 respectively. At the time of initial burial Isaac was noted as "Unknown" possibly due to the Jewish nature of his surname, he had removed or otherwise altered his identity. They were exhumed in 1947 so presumably each was able to be identified, which wasn't always the case and could suggest the crew had already bombed and that the aircraft wasn't totally destroyed by explosion or impact (just speculation, not knowledge).
The pilot being the only survivor doesn't seem to indicate a crash landing, as then you'd hope that other crew would survive, and if any control available, other crew could have parachuted out.
It's possible that a night fighter might have riddled the aircraft from astern, killing or disabling the crew except the pilot if he had an armoured seat.... but I don't know, just theorising how the pilot alone survived.

[BigWeeker]

Icare9
Thank you very much for that information
Andy
Ps: Have PM’d you....