The Eagles Over Europe Project

[Larry Hickey]

Mirek,

Thanx for your comments. No way to know for sure the exact cause of the belly landing incident unless we get some further reporting.

Regards,

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Larry
of course one one could be sure of it, but even Ii was not combat damage (?) only bally-landing means 30-45 % damages.

mw

[Larry Hickey]

Matti,

This is a very important clue in eliminating one possibility. Do we know whether the other crew from 22.04.40 was buried at Mannheim?

22 April 1940: 15.(Z)/LG1Messerschmitt Bf110C-1. Crashed into houses near Mannheim-Sandhofen and burnt out following engine failure on maintenance test flight. (FF) Oberlt Walter Clausen (Staffelkapitän) and mechanic killed. Aircraft 100% write-off.

"Merlin" thinks that this must be the crew being buried in the funeral ceremony, but I'm still skeptical of the light blue camouflage on those Bf110s that early. Very important for the profile project if he is right. Since Clausen was a Sta Kap, there certainly would have been an elaborate funeral ceremony for him, especially since he died during a period of very little combat activity.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I have one poor quality photo of this a/c in a salvage dump, but would appreciate knowing about other photos of it if they exist:

"1 September 1939 Polish Campaign: 3./StG1 Junkers Ju87B-1. Forced-landed in open country north of Mlawa damaged in attack by PZL P11s during sortie to bomb the radio station at Babice 5.15 p.m. Possibly that attacked by Ppor. Kazimierz Daszewski of 112 EM. FF Oberlt Bruno Dilley (Staffelkapitän) and gunner both unhurt. Aircraft A5+AL 20% damaged but repairable."

I want to do a color profile of this a/c for the EoE Project.

[F19Gladiator]

Larry,
In Ludwig von Eimannsberger's book "Zerstörergruppe" on page 18-19 Oblt. Clausen's crash on April 22nd while based at Mannheim is described and claimed that "the next day the Staffel, under command of Clausen's radio operator Fw. Reinhold, bade a military Farewell to Clausen before the doors of the train that was to take him home to Husum closed".
I believe "Merlin" is right in thinking that this ceremony is what we can see on the photos.
BR
Göran

[Larry Hickey]

Göran,

I think that this reference settles the issue, and "Merlin" is right in his analysis of this incident. The photos show the "Military Farewell" at Mannheim on 23 April 1940 for Clausen and his gunner. That decisively advances the date for an example of the light blue over-spray on 13.(Z)/LG1 Bf110s to that date, a month earlier than I'd suspected, and shakes up the profile order for the EoE project for that Staffel. Got to rethink this.

This may now relate to one of the crash photos that I posted earlier, which "Merlin" thinks may be the crash of Clausen's L1+AL. I'll post this here again for any further comments or help matching other crash photos.

"22 April 1940: 15.(Z)/LG1Messerschmitt Bf110C-1. Crashed into houses near Mannheim-Sandhofen and burnt out following engine failure on maintenance test flight. (FF) Oberlt Walter Clausen (Staffelkapitän) and mechanic killed. Aircraft 100% write-off."

My problem with this match-up is that there are no houses or structures visible in this photo, which, however, certainly looks like the crash of an a/c with a light-colored "A" on the smashed wingtip. This could, however, easily be accounted for by the angle from which the photo was taken, looking away from any structures it hit. Since this would have been a local crash to the airfield at Mannheim-Sandhofen, where the unit was based at the time, you'd certainly expect there to be photos in the collections of unit veterans from that time period. Does anyone else have photos of the scene of this crash, that might settle this issue?

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-2xZ...-2xZ876S-L.jpg

I should note that here is the alternative candidate for this crash:

12 May 1940: Lu_40-5-12a Bf110C 13-LG1 Possibly Lt Hans Gaffal, WIA-POW, hit trees Cashed & Burned Out at ‘Nugimont’, S of Blagny, France, Chris J. Ehrengardt Coll via 11-06 LJH Visit

The only way to resolve this may be to find another photo of the Clausen wreck with the houses in the background, or, alternatively, a photo of Gaffal's crash at "Nugimont." Who holds the proof for either scenario?

However, it may turn out that it's not wise to question the advice of a magician like "Merlin." He might turn me into a mouse or something for my impertinence. That would look pretty strange, a nearly 2 meter tall half-Viking, half-German mouse with an Irish name. That should scare the hell out of some Anglo-Saxon monks.

Regards,

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I have now seen Kevin's evidence and can confirm that RH-L photographed damaged at Mourmelon was serial number L5526.

Thanx to Kevin for all of us trying to unravel the mystery on this one.

[F19Gladiator]

Larry,
Just a small correction: Clausen's Bordfunker was not onboard in the accident but a mechanic who was killed. Clausen's Bordfunker did command the ceremony for Clausen and the mechanic the next day according to the book.
I don't beleive the photo you've posted here shows Clausen's Bf110 as according to Eimannsberger's book p.19: "Both wings were torn off in the following collision with houses, the aircraft's fuselage crashed into a street and skidded along it for about 200 meters. The loss of the wings caused the fuel tanks to empty their contents over the houses and into the street. Not until all of the ammunition had exploded could the bodies of Clausen and the mechanic who was with him be removed from the fuselage."
Does not seem to match the linked to photo.
BR
Göran

[Larry Hickey]

Göran,

The text would seem to eliminate this photo as being the wreckage of Clausen's aircraft. However, for the history, I'd still like to locate a photo (s) of that crash.

This now seems much more likely to be the wreckage of Lt Hans Gaffal's L1+AH, down ‘Nugimont’, S of Blagny, France, on 12 May. Again, we still need some confirmation of this.

We're getting there.

[F19Gladiator]

Hi,
Would be interesting to see what Kevin's photo reveals as the photo linked to by Larry, which I also have from eBay, more looks like L5527. The last digit for sure looks more like "7" than "6" to me. However, there migh be a much better image showing something else?
BR
Göran