B-17 lost 3rd Sept 1944 on 'R&R' flight

[Larry]

On the 3rd September 1944, a Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress crash landed at Christchurch with twenty-four servicemen on board. It is said that this flight was to bring men for R&R in Bournemouth and it has been suggested that it took off from Allied occupied NW Europe, or was it coming from East Anglia instead? Can anyone give more details of unit and aircraft identity?

[Leendert]

Larry,

Not a crash landing but an emergency landing? See http://www.hampshireairfields.co.uk/...xchmilvis.html and scroll down to 3.9.44.

Unfortunately a crash is easier to trace than an emergency landing with apparently no injuries to crew and passengers, plus airplane in one piece.

Regards,

Leendert

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
Thanks Leendert,
Your reply cleared up my search.

AAIR had four B17's on this date. I checked them and all 4 continued in service after that date.
So here are the numbers/Units.

B17F - 42-3105 - Robert H. Thompson - Llanbedr RAF - 2 CCRC.
B17G - 42-31711 - Carl W. Rogge - Polbrook - 351.
B17G - 42-97470 - Charles J. Schultz - Glatton - 457.
B17G - 43-37574 - Harry J. Whitman - Glatton - 457.

8th & 9th losses vol 4 has 42-3105. On a non operational flight from Atcham, taking pilots to a firing range.
Brakes failed. 4 crew number of passengers not noted.all safe.

Alex

[Larry]

Alex, forgive me but what is AAIR.

Would any B-17s beflying from Europe back to the UK with men on R&R?

[RSwank]

AAIR - Aviation Archaeological Investigation and Research

http://aviationarchaeology.com/

The Charles J Schultz had incident seems to have involved quite a few people for a B-17. That "might" be your incident. You can get the accident report from AAIR for a fee. But note the location was Glatton.

Here are all the names involved with the Schultz incident from the airforcehistoryindex.org But note that Whitman (pilot of another plane) is on the list, so this is a collision of two planes each with 9 man crews. Incident is coded MAC (MId Air Collision).


It may be that the incident you seek did not get written up.

FYI: the crew lists

SCHULTZ, CHARLES J.; WILSON, ALFRED P. JR; HOUGHTEN, RICHARD A.; MALDERMOTT, GEORGE E.; DICKINSON, RICHARD L.; PALLADING, JOHN R.; HERRMANN, AUGUSTUS W.; ENGLE, ROBERT J.; CARTER, CALVIN M.; WHITMAN, HARRY J.; GILBERTSON, ALBERT O.; PATRICK, HAROLD W.; STONER, LEONARD G.; MELLY, JOSEPH P.; MUNGER, HOWARD B.; DAHLE, LOUIS R.; SCHARNHORST, WILLIAM A.; MCGRIFF, KENNETH F.

[Alex Smart]

Hello Roland,
Did you see my post above ?
Schultz - 42-97470
Whitman - 43-37574.
From your list it looks like both a/c had a ten man crew which seems right.
Crew of 42-3105 were -
Lt. Thompson, Robert H. (Pilot).
Capt. Tolley, A. P. (Co-Pilot).
T/Sgt. Pearson, W.R. (Engineer ).
S/Sgt. Uruburu, Joseph A. ( Radio Op ).
PASSENGERS were-
Lyle,C.L; Thoms, W.C ; Clarke, D.L ; Brown, R.E ; Derby, W.A ; Gabriel, J. B ; Breman, L.R ; Clark, G. G ; Minott, R.A ; Breckler, J.J ; Minkler, W.F ; Davidson,C.W ; Coffin, T.G ; Stinson, H.A ; Schindling, R.T ; Craddock, B. F ; Miller, D. D ; Georgen, L.R ; Frank, H.A ; Gildow, G. J ; Greeley, D. N ; Cooley, R.P ; Quinci, P ; (Llanbear ).
Ref airforcehistoryindex.org
a/c salvaged 2nd June 1945.

Alex

[Larry]

Alex, are you suggesting 'my' B-17 was 42-3105 ?

[Alex Smart]

Hello Larry,

Well 42-3105 was what may have been said to be an emergency landing as the brakes failed and also on a Non Operational flight.
Also the a/c continued in service until being salvaged in 1945.
This a/c had low crew numbers and several passengers.

The other B17's mentioned had only their crew on board.
So unless there was another USAAF B17 that has not been brought to light I think that 42-3105 fits the bill.
Then again it just may have been an RAF B17 which made the emergency landing ?
But I do not know if the RAF would have used a B17 for transporting servicemen for R&R ?

Over to you
Alex

[Larry]

Thanks Alex.

Lastly I presume B17F - 42-3105 flew from Llanbedr?

And 2 CCRC- presumably 2 Combat Crew Replacement Center was based there?

[Alex Smart]

Hello Larry,
From the AAIR site see Base as Station 238.
This was Cluntoe..
Originally Bases at Cheddington the 2 CCRC moved to Cluntoe and it may well have been in the throws of a third move to Horsham from 16th September 1944.
The Gunnery training may well have been in Wales or N. Ireland. The Welsh one was at Criccieth , the Irish one was over the North Channel between Scotland and Ireland.
Hope that this helps.
As it was a visit to the Gunnery training site it may well have also been an unofficial site seeing tour for those on board.
Ref for this was "The Mighty Eighth War Manual", by Roger A. Freeman.

Alex