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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #1  
Old 1st September 2019, 09:22
keith A keith A is offline
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Soviet Fighter Pilot training

I know the V-VS ace Stepan Bakhaev was at VASP Krasnodar military aviation School for pilots from 1941 until 1943 and flew the U-2 biplane, and the two-seat UTI-4, UTI-16 fighter-trainers before getting some time on the Yak-1. But how was the course structured? For example were there set times spent on the U-2, UTI-4, UTI-16 etc, in different sub-schools? By that I mean would he have spent six weeks on one aircraft then four weeks on another etc.?

best regards

Keith
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  #2  
Old 1st September 2019, 18:13
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Soviet Fighter Pilot training

prior to late July 1942, a flight training school, a Shturman school for navigators and bombardiers and a specialty school for aviation technicians were at Krasnodar, and it was also used by operational Soviet bombers and fighters.
Krasnodar was in German hands from 9 August 1942 to 12 February 1943.

As for pilot training, Ic (Fremde Luftwaffen Ost)/Generalstab d.Luftwaffe produced a number of studies on pilot training in the VVS from its inception through 1944. These are very detailed and can be found at BA-MA, NARA WashDC on microfilm and, most importantly online on the TsAMO website. You will have to search for them on the latter, but there are several very helpful threads on TOCH concerning the TsAMO collection that you would find helpful.

L.
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  #3  
Old 2nd September 2019, 10:29
kirche kirche is offline
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Re: Soviet Fighter Pilot training

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith A View Post
VASP Krasnodar military aviation School for pilots from 1941 until 1943
Good day,
According to various sources, S. A. Bahaev studied:
- or in Bataiskaya VAShP, which in October 1941 was evacuated to Yevlakh (Azerbaijan) - now the Krasnodar VVAUL.
- either in the Krasnodar VAShP that in may - June 1942 relocated to the city of Pugachev Saratov region. In November-December 1943 the School returned to its former place in Krasnodar. Disbanded in September 1945.
These schools are often confused.
Was also the Krasnodar OVAU but for bomber pilots and navigators.

Before the flying school, S. A. Bahaev studied at the Lipetsk aviation club (140 flights by U-2). By the time of graduation cadet Bahaev was able to master Ut-2, UTI-4, I-16 and Yak-1.

From the memoirs of the cadet of Krasnodar VAShP (entered in April 1941): "After a twenty-hour program on UT-2 cadets began to master the UTI-4 and I-16 type 5, available in the school. With the beginning of the war, the squadron, which served as a cadet, relocated to the airfield, located North of Krasnodar near the village Korenovskaya, where flights continued. Autumn squadron was received one Yak-1, which began to get acquainted with the instructors and management. Snow fell abundantly in November 1941 and lay until March 1942. The flights stopped, the main task of the cadets began clearing an airfield of snow (from the airport flying the DB-3 and DB-ZF). By the spring of 1942, with improved weather conditions, flights on the I-16 resumed. In may 1942 training was over, and after final exam cadet, possessing 48 hours RAID on I-16 and UTI-4 was dispatched in 22 ZAP."

S.A. Bahaev studied longer and in his memoirs, mentions the evacuation at the beginning of the war - perhaps he studied in Bataiskaya VAShP?

Quote:
UTI-4, UTI-16
UTI-16 - No such plane
UTI-4 = I-16 type 15 = training version I-16
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  #4  
Old 2nd September 2019, 13:31
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Alfred.MONZAT Alfred.MONZAT is offline
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Re: Soviet Fighter Pilot training

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirche View Post
UTI-16 - No such plane
UTI-4 = I-16 type 15 = training version I-16
I believe he wanted to say I-16UTI which is the training version of the I-16 with a dedicated production line but otherwise identical to the UTI-4.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 08:51
keith A keith A is offline
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Re: Soviet Fighter Pilot training

Thanks chaps. The information on Krasnodar is superb.

I used the nomenclature UTI-16 because that is what was shown in the Soviet biography, and several other websites and I didn't know the difference. Thanks for clearing that up Alfred


regards

Keith
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  #6  
Old 3rd September 2019, 10:32
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: Soviet Fighter Pilot training

After their initial training, fighter, ground attack and bomber crews kept practicing in trainer versions of their planes even on their frontline airfields. These were eg. two-seater fighters, or special modifications of bombers, etc. Just a few examples of these trainer planes from the final stage of the war:

La-5UTI (S/N: 39215298 in 5 VA, 279 IAD, 92 IAP) crashed on January 2, 1945 - crew of 2 (Rodionov-Hramov) killed
La-5UTI (S/N: 3810330 in 17 VA, 18 OUTSAP) written off by February 22, 1945
La-5UTI (S/N: 39211226 in 17 VA, 295 IAD, 116 IAP) belly landed on December 2, 1944 - Zolotarskii
La-5UTI (S/N: 39212156 in 17 VA, 295 IAD, 31 IAP) turned over on December 21, 1944 - Chirkin
La-5UTI (S/N: 39214539 in 5 VA, 14 GvIAD, 179 GvIAP) crashed on March 31, 1945 - Dyachkov killed

UIL-2 (S/N: 18774102 in 17 VA, 189 ShAD, 707 ShAP) - 1945
UIL-2 (S/N: 18777102 in 17 VA, 189 ShAD, 615 ShAP) - 1945
UIL-2 (S/N: 10004 in 17 VA, 10 GvShAD) - 1945
UIL-2 (S/N: 10025 in 17 VA, 10 GvShAD) - 1945

UA-20C Boston (S/N: 41-19703 in 5 VA, 218 BAD) - 1944
UA-20C Boston (S/N: 41-19623 in 17 VA, 244 BAD) - 1945
UA-20C Boston (S/N: 41-19627 in 17 VA, 244 BAD) - 1945
UA-20C Boston (S/N: 41-19291 in 17 VA, 244 BAD) - 1945
UA-20C Boston (S/N: 41-19346 in 17 VA, 244 BAD) - 1945

...etc.
Gabor

Last edited by HGabor; 3rd September 2019 at 14:49.
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Old 3rd September 2019, 14:09
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Soviet Fighter Pilot training

Gabor

Thanks for this interesting list.

I was surprised to see the designation UA-20C. Never come across it before

Did the Soviet Union do anything particular whith these aircraft or was it "war-weary" individuals simply assigned to training, ie non-combat duties?

Cheers
Stig
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Old 3rd September 2019, 14:35
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: Soviet Fighter Pilot training

Well, the soviet designation of these Bostons was УБ-3. (Б-3 ---> УБ-3)
I just indicated that these planes originally were A-20C models before their field modification. I have seen replaced/modified nose sections in photos, or perhaps some of them just had different internal instruments. I assume they used the WW planes for training purposes as the A-20C in 1945 was a very old model. Most planes by then were A-20G, A-20K. By the way, in 1945 in 5 VA, 218 BAD there was even a .....428 UA-20, but unsure about the full serial.

In 244 BAD 41-19623 is listed only in the October 1, 1944 report, while the other 3 are all listed in the October 1, 1944, January 1, 1945, April 1, 1945 and July 1, 1945 reports - I mean in these 4 quarterly AC inventories. So 41-19623 had to be written off between October 1, 1944 and January 1, 1945. The rest survived the war until at least July 1, 1945.

In the 218 BAD lists, both Bostons are listed in the October 1, 1944 and January 1, 1945 AC inv. reports, - not sure about the rest.

Gabor
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Old 3rd September 2019, 14:46
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Soviet Fighter Pilot training

Thanks for the clarification Gabor

Yes I know about the B-3 designation, so basically what they called it was UB-3.

With regard to your '428' and if we play with the thought it was actually an A-20C, 41-19428 is a match (IF it went to the Soviet Union that is... )

Cheers
Stig
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  #10  
Old 3rd September 2019, 14:52
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: Soviet Fighter Pilot training

Correct.
Gabor
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