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  #1  
Old 8th May 2010, 00:52
cheruskerarmin cheruskerarmin is offline
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Smile SAAF aircraft/units of the DAF research

Hi,
i am very new to these forums and came across it while researching the web for paintscheme informations on the following WWII aircraft of the desert air force:

- Hawker Hurricanes Mk I, IIa, IIb and IIc 1st Sqn SAAF, april 1941 - summer 1942

- Hawker Hurricanes MkI, IIa, IIb and IIc 274th Sqn RAF, same period

- Hawker Hurricanes (MkI) of the Royal Navy Fighter Squadron (combined of 803 and 806 Sqns FAA, based ashore and attached to RAF), mid 1941 - early 1942

- Boston III of 12th and 24th Sqns SAAF, late 1941/1942

Inspite of some infos collected so far there are a lot of questions remaining
unanswered:

- introduction date of squadron codes (AX, NH, OL, OZ and for 12th Sqn SAAF, which is still unknown to me)

- exact types/numbers/serials and dates of entering service of those aircraft

- use of SAAF (orange) or RAF roundels (red) in the Boston Sqns


Found not much reliable books/sources on these subjects and original
bw photographs are hardly to define regarding colours. Found a lot of
obviously wrong profiles and descriptions.

Sorry my English isn't always well. I'm a German and learned it about 30 years ago in school

If anyone could help me with info or photographs/pictures/profiles
it would be much appreciated.

Thank you very much and
best wishes
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  #2  
Old 10th May 2010, 11:41
stefaan stefaan is offline
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stefaan
Re: SAAF aircraft/units of the DAF research

Hi.
Lot's of SAAF questions.
I am at the Office, so not at my references but to help quickly.
AX was 1 SAAF, and used when moving into the Desert.
OZ was not 12 SAAF but 24 sqdn on Bostons, not Marylands and Marauders.
Same for 12 sqdn but they were VL codes.
Go to IPMS SA, and the SAAF Association pages.(SAAFA under Google)
There is lots of info and History their.
Yes, also mainly Orange roundels, but sometimes the were red.
I have spoken to many flying and groundcrew vets, and they said were possible the orange was painted in as soon as possible once they recieved a/c.
Problem with eg 6 RAF and 7 SAAF was that these sqdn shared a/c, so may not always show orange.
Hope it helps.
Stefaan.
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South Africa
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  #3  
Old 10th May 2010, 21:29
cheruskerarmin cheruskerarmin is offline
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Re: SAAF aircraft/units of the DAF research

Hi Stefaan,

thank your very much for your reply!!!

i already know ipms.za and there is unfortunately no information regarding my questions. It is a scale modellers site, found no forums there. The SAAF association indeed stores a lot of history but not relating to paintschemes. Perhaps i should contact them anyway.

Have contacted the SAAF museum but didn't get any reply so far.
Today i emailed a private researcher whom i found on the saairforce page, enquiring what he could do and how much is the fee...

Regarding the AX codes of 1st Sqn these seemed to be applied first in early 1942, like in a very lot of other DAF squadrons. Prior to this 1st Sq SAAF seemed to use just a crudely painted aircraft letter only - or no code at all.
There is much confusing information regarding the first use of MkIIa/MkIIb ('Hurribombers'), various books state MkIIs were in service from april 1941
onwards (1st Sqn start of service in the western desert), others state they were even MkIIbs. My own research results so far are the 1st Sqn didn't get MkII hurricanes before october 1941 (like mentioned in 'fighters over the desert' by Hans Ring/Christopher Shores) . Prior to this date they flew the MkI, afterwards the MkIIa variant. MkIIbs and MkIIcs were in service most likely not before may/june 1942, when the sqn reentered service after being pulled out in february (due to losses).
You see this (and much more) remains unclear.

Regarding the Boston squadrons your info on the 'VL' code of No 12 Sqn was very useful! Didn't know this code so far. Very few photographs available. Found some serials lately but again it seems these squadrons used no codes or single aircraft letters only up to the fall of 1941.
Some pictures/profiles depicting the code letters in red, some in white color. I assumed the occasionally use of RAF roundels, now i know it for sure.

Most helpful are original photographs but they are very rare!

Does anyone got the book 'desert flyer'?

http://aircrewbookreview.blogspot.co...ord-jones.html

Would be very interesting to me if the book contains some good
photographs of 274 Sqn hurricanes...

THX a lot and best wishes

Armin
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  #4  
Old 10th May 2010, 22:41
Etienne Etienne is offline
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Re: SAAF aircraft/units of the DAF research

Hi Armin,
Here are three colour photos; Hurricanes of 7 Sqn. and Bostons of 24 Sqn.
Hope this helps.

Should you be interested I have a few more SAAF colour photos on Flickr here http://www.flickr.com/photos/8270787...7605269786717/

Cheers.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Hurricane-1.jpg (143.3 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg SAAFBoston 2.jpg (137.8 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg Boston.jpg (142.2 KB, 15 views)
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  #5  
Old 11th May 2010, 15:46
cheruskerarmin cheruskerarmin is offline
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Re: SAAF aircraft/units of the DAF research

Thank you very much for your reply Etienne, i already know these photographs and all the others at flickr.com.
The Boston with red code letter 'V' wears the C1 type fuselage roundel first introduced about may/june 1942. Is the centre color red or orange, a good question isn't it? The photo's description states it is from 'Tunisia 1943'.
There are photographs showing the squadron code OZ in red or in white.
These are displaying the aircraft from the right side. Perhaps the sqn-code were on the right, the aircraft letter on the left?
Would really like to know the order of altered codes and period when used...

The Hurricanes of 7th Sqn SAAF were shared with the 6th Sqn RAF, compare the inner fuselage roundel colors. Again these aircraft are shown in late 1942 or 1943.

THX anyway!
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