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  #11  
Old 12th October 2020, 19:10
tonda75 tonda75 is offline
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Re: Robert Spreckels

Hi Stig,
I have a list of air victories from this source:
Prien / Rodeike: Jagdgeschwader 1 und 11

Regards Tony
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  #12  
Old 12th October 2020, 21:46
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Robert Spreckels

Thanks Tony

That source is available to Johannes as well.
I have sent him an e-mail and wait for him to either answer me or straight to this topic.

I am pretty certain it is an interpretation of the microfilms which is the root of the problem.

Cheers
Stig
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  #13  
Old 13th October 2020, 16:22
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Robert Spreckels

In the JFV volumes four claims by Spreckels are listed:
JFV 10/II
25 Jun 1943 2./JG 11 Uffz Robert Spreckels 1 B-17 09.07 hrs and 1 B-17 HSS 09.26 hrs
JFV 13/V
16 Jun 1944 Ausbildungsstaffel/JG 11 Fw Robert Spreckels 1 Mosquito 11.24 hrs
25 Jun 1944 Ausbildungsstaffel/JG 11 Fw Robert Spreckels 1 Mosquito 12.05 hrs

Regards
Leo
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  #14  
Old 13th October 2020, 16:43
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Robert Spreckels

Thanks Leo

I suspected that. This is exactly what Johannes also have in his book.
Repeating myself, I am pretty certain it all has to do with the interpretation of the microfilms in question.

Hopefully Johannes will get back to me/us with his interpretation.
I might add that Johannes also states 'at least' for these four claims and also mentions the possibillity of a further two against Soviet forces in 1945.

Cheers
Stig
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  #15  
Old 17th October 2020, 10:42
Johannes Johannes is online now
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Re: Robert Spreckels

Thanks for the prompt Stig

Only four of Spreckles claims are found on the microfilms, so these should be considered as FACT:-

25th June 1943 B-17 at 7500 metres 0907 hrs
25th June 1943 B-17 at 7500 metres 0925 hrs

These were claimed as an Unteroffizier with 2./JG11. This Staffels earlier typed-out mikrofilms have not survived, but on 17th April 1943 it started listing on the daily claims mikrofilm for the West which ended on 5th December 1944. These are complete with the exception of those in January 1944, but are covered by the Staffels date and time only mikrofilm.

16th June 1944 Mosquito South of Hadsund at 600 metres 1124 hrs
25th June 1944 Mosquito Skjern area at only 25 metres and at 1205 hrs

Both of these were as a Feldwebel with Ast./JG11.

It is possible that he claimed prior to 17th April 1943 with 2./JG11, or with another Staffel, or after December 1944, and he is thought to have claimed two Sowiet aircraft during this latter time.

Date of Birth I have of 14th March 1943. Not much else known, but he has almost certainly died post war. Final rank Oberfeldwebel. For the reason listed above I did not number his claims....because of the possibility of previous claims to those listed.

Prien has done some superb work on multiple units, but sometimes used guesses for claims he had dates for i.e date and time given only, sometimes he was correct, sometimes he was not. Any claims other than the four he had previously listed within the time-frame 17th April 1943 until December 1944 will be incorrect, those previous to that date are guesses, and if he was incorrect during the time-frame ones, there is no reason to believe those prior would be correct as it would appear he is not working this case using Spreckles flugbuch or any other reliable source. Those Prien is correct with with other pilots is because he used a reliable source of some sort. Naturally there is always the possibility of unconfirmed claims during the time-frame.

Kind Regards

Johannes
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  #16  
Old 17th October 2020, 11:55
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Robert Spreckels

Thanks Johannes

Very nice of you to answer my call for help.
I would say that this is all that can be proven, at least at this moment, and everything else (some clearly fantasy) can only be classified as unsubstantiated speculations,

Take Care
Cheers
Stig
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  #17  
Old 17th October 2020, 15:55
harryurz harryurz is offline
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Re: Robert Spreckels

Quote:
Date of Birth I have of 14th March 1943.

I presume that should be 14 March 1923?? ;-)
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  #18  
Old 17th October 2020, 19:36
harryurz harryurz is offline
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Re: Robert Spreckels

Also found this reference:
http://www.blitzgeschwader.de/kg3_do...fbs_201011.pdf
which notes Spreckels on page 191.
Not sure what it tells us as my German is non existant!!
JFS4 is I assume the flight school he attended, not sure of SFAR 24.
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  #19  
Old 17th October 2020, 21:10
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Robert Spreckels

SFAR 24 was the abbreviation for Schule (= Flugzeugführerschule) Flieger Ausbildungsregiment 24.

Regards
Leo
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  #20  
Old 20th October 2020, 12:03
Johannes Johannes is online now
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Re: Robert Spreckels

Hi

Regarding D.O.B, sorry senior moment, ment to say 1920.

Kind Regards

Johannes
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