Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11th October 2020, 15:59
harryurz harryurz is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 17
harryurz is on a distinguished road
Robert Spreckels

Hi guys,
Just finished re-reading Bob Braham's excellent "Scramble" and the thought occured to me not a lot is known about the guy who shot him down in 1944, (Robert Spreckels), apart from what is mentioned in the book text.

The Kracker archives is limited and a search regarding units served, combat claims etc. throws up little further information.

Can anyone fill in the gaps?

Thus far Spreckels appears to have served with JG1 in 1942 and then JG 11 mid 1943 onwards. Magnus quotes 12 victories while Bowers/Lednicer quotes 21 victories, whle other references state 44 claims. Only 8 are logged in surviving Luftwaffe records, with reportedly 6 heavies ?

He was shot down or force landed four times, including during Bodenplatte.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11th October 2020, 16:24
SteveR SteveR is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Upper Midwest, USA
Posts: 188
SteveR is on a distinguished road
Re: Robert Spreckels

I also tried to find out more about Spreckels a few years ago after re-reading Braham's book.

I'll admit, I got sidetracked rather quickly, so this is about the only thing I found with more info on him:

https://www.airmen.dk/p327.htm
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11th October 2020, 17:10
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,045
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: Robert Spreckels

Quote:
Originally Posted by harryurz View Post
Hi guys,

Thus far Spreckels appears to have served with JG1 in 1942 and then JG 11 mid 1943 onwards. Magnus quotes 12 victories while Bowers/Lednicer quotes 21 victories, whle other references state 44 claims. Only 8 are logged in surviving Luftwaffe records, with reportedly 6 heavies ?
Harry

Checking Johannes Mathews, he could only come up with four claims by Spreckels when je published his Aces Vol 4. Two B-17 and two Mosquitoes.
Since he is only known to have served with JG 1 and JG 11, I find both 21 and 44 claims quite impossible. Even 12 claims sounds a bit too much.

Can you expand on which 8 claims are logged in surviving Luftwaffe records?
From the data at hand, it seems you thus have records of four additional 4-engined aircraft. Which were they and where are they recorded?

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11th October 2020, 17:28
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,254
Brian Bines is on a distinguished road
Re: Robert Spreckels

The cranstonfinearts site shows the following for Spreckels

22-3-1943 B-17 8/JG 1
13-5-1944 B-17 JG11
19-5-1944 B-17 JG 11
16-6-1944 Mosquito JG11
25-6-1944 Mosquito JG11

It also has quotes the total of 21 victories could this be 21 points rather han actual victories ?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11th October 2020, 17:30
tonda75 tonda75 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 110
tonda75 is on a distinguished road
Re: Robert Spreckels

Hi, I have this:

1. Ls 1.8.42 Boston 30 km W.Helgoland
2. 22.3.43 B17 HSS N.Texel
3. 25.6.43 B17
4. 25.6.43 B17 HSS
5 13.5.44 B17
6. 19.5.44 B17
7. 16.6.44 Mosquito
8. 25.6.44 Mosquito
9th and 10th Ls. June-September 1944 on the Eastern Front.

Regards Tony
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11th October 2020, 17:46
harryurz harryurz is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 17
harryurz is on a distinguished road
Re: Robert Spreckels

Hi Stig,
This is what I've found thus:

Claim 1/ 1 August 1942 (8.JG1) "Boston " 30 km. W. Helgoland 17-56 hours;
No obvious matches, though looking at JG1's 1942 coastal encounters the "Boston" may be a Beaufort or a Beaufighter/Blenheim type from Coastal Command. Uffz Karl Bugaj 11./JG 1 shot down Mosquito DK308 of 105 Sqn. North of Langeoog at 13:18 hrs that same day.



Claim 2/ 22 March 1943 (8.JG 1) B-17HSS Texel.
76 B-17's and 26 B-24's against Wilhelmshaven, losing 1 B-17 and 2 B-24's with 12 B-17s and 10 B-24's damaged. All 4 of JG1 gruppen flew two missions. JG 1 claimed 6 bombers ; 2 B24s and 4 B17s.


Claim 3 & 4/ 25 June 1943 Two B-17s ( now with 2. JG 11; 9.05 and 9.27 hours)
275 B-17's in scattered attacks on targets of opportunity in NW Germany when Bremen and Hamburg are obscured; 18 B-17's lost, Luft claimed 21, the 34 aircraft of JG11 claimed 12 of these (Stab claimed 2, I/JG 11 claimed 5 0812-0930 hours, II/JG 11 claimed 5). I/ JG 11 lost 2 FW190s (1 KIA).


We now have a big gap (maybe he as wounded in 1943?) to-


Claim 5/ 13 May 1944 B17 over Norway, with 'Alarmstaffel Aalborg' (ex 10.JG11)

749 bombers and 737 fighters hit targets in Germany; 12 bombers and 5 fighters lost; 289 B-17s dispatched to oil targets in W Poland; 10 bombers lost and 81 damaged. 199 B-17s dispatched to Osnabruck; 1 B-17 lost and 61 damaged; 261 B-24s to Tutow; 1 B-24 lost and 2 damaged; The most combats were with the escorts ; P-47s claimed 14-2-9, P-51s claimed 33-1-4; Luftwaffe lost 38 with 18 KIA. JG11 claimed 3 B-17s (Inc. Spreckels) 3 P-47s and 2 P-51s for 12 fighters lost, 6 KIA. Ops flown 1200-13-30 hours


claim 6/19 May 1944 B17 with 'Alarmstaffel Aalborg' (ex 10.JG11);
888 bombers and 700 fighters to Germany; 28 bombers and 19 fighters lost; fighters claim 77-0-33 : 588 B-17s to Berlin; 16 B-17s lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 289 damaged; 300 B-24s to Brunswick; 12 B-24s lost and 64 damaged; On outward journey I/JG11 claimed 5 B-24s, II/JG11 claimed 2 fighters for 12 losses. Return journey I/ JG 11 claimed a B24 HSS and III/JG 11 claimed 2 B-17s for no loss. Luft lost 68 fighters, 30 KIA.



claim7/ 16 June 1944 11.24 hours Mosguito S. Hadsünd, Denmark;
Mosquito FB.VI (NS913) “SM-T” of 305 Sqn (Pol) RAF S/L MJ. Herrick DFC&B and Navigator F/O A Turski (Pol)both KIA;


claim 8/ 25 June 1944 12.05 hours Mosquito Skjern/Jütland, Denmark;
Mosquito FB.VI (LR373) “YH-A” of 21 Sqn RAF W/C RJ Braham DSO&2B DFC&B and Navigator S/L DC Walch POW.


Spreckels is next referenced on 1 January 1945, when 41 Fw190s of Stab., I and III/JG 11 and 20 Bf109s of II/ JG11 took part in Bodenplatte, their target the airfield near Asch, Belgium, designated Y-29, hosting the 352nd FG and 366th FG. Some 30 of JG 11 attacked Ophoven (RAF 125 Wg) by mistake. A Squadron of the 366th was already airborne to attack ground targets in the Bulge. A Squadron from the 352nd was idling on the runway as approached, and was able to get all 12 aircraft off. A large dogfight then occurred at low altitude over the base. JG11 lost 24 planes (4 to AA) and 22 pilots for a claim of 11 Allied aircraft down. 352nd FG claimed 23, 366th FG claimed 8, AA claimed 7,

Obfw. Robert Spreckels 11./JG 11 was slightly wounded, returned in an FW190A-8 , belly landed near Aachen, shot up by 352nd FG P-51 or P-47 of the 366th FG.



His rank also seems to vary and is often quoted as a Leutnant. Strikes me if he did continue serving with JG 11 then further (unconfirmed or recorded) claims could be in early 1945 against the Soviets?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11th October 2020, 23:14
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,045
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: Robert Spreckels

Brian, Tony, Harry

Thanks, but what is (are) your source(s)?

I don't know what cranstonfinearts site can contribute to this topic, so please enlighten me.

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12th October 2020, 00:19
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,254
Brian Bines is on a distinguished road
Re: Robert Spreckels

The Cranstonfinearts site contains brief profiles for pilots connected with the aviation prints it sells , the profile for Spreckels is just the victories I listed

regards
Brian Bines
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12th October 2020, 07:55
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,045
Stig Jarlevik is on a distinguished road
Re: Robert Spreckels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Bines View Post
The Cranstonfinearts site contains brief profiles for pilots connected with the aviation prints it sells , the profile for Spreckels is just the victories I listed

regards
Brian Bines
Thanks Brian
I made a brief check on the site but could not find Spreckels.
However, I am still back on square one, not knowing the origin of the data.
Johannes has gone through the microfilms, so maybe it is again an interpretation of the names listed?

I will ask Johannes to read this and check on Spreckels, if any new info has come to light after his book was published.

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12th October 2020, 10:11
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,254
Brian Bines is on a distinguished road
Re: Robert Spreckels

Stig try this - https://www.cranstonfinearts.com/aces.php?PilotID=1553

Scroll down for the Spreckels entry , click on the JG1 or JG11 in the white box on the left for a list of the units aces.

Regards
Brian Bines

Last edited by Brian Bines; 12th October 2020 at 13:45.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Robert Taylor prints for sale Mustanglimey On Offer 0 27th June 2020 00:22
Robert "Rosie" Rosenthal - Pilot - 100th Bomb Group - passing of a great American hero. Mark Copeland Obituaries 1 25th December 2017 18:17
Colonel Robert Hall Stig Jarlevik Allied and Soviet Air Forces 2 28th July 2016 08:53
"Fighting Hitler's Jets: The Extraordinary Story of the American Airmen Who Beat the Luftwaffe and Defeated Nazi Germany", by Robert F. Dorr Richard T. Eger Books and Magazines 43 15th November 2013 03:37
Col. Robert J. "Shorty" Rankin 10/23/1918 - 3/14/2013 Zachary Obituaries 0 21st March 2013 15:02


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net