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  #31  
Old 20th November 2014, 16:56
paulmcmillan paulmcmillan is offline
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Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

Bruce

You are right, he must have been one of the 16th Pilots who flew out of Tangmere to Betheniville on May 10th 1940

I have a list of the following NCO pilots who were in the Sqn from Jan to June 1940. This may not be 100% complete



Jan 1940
Sgt Douglas Barker Crabtree #740434 Injured 11th May 1940 later #125730 Bombay L5813
Sgt Hugh Charles Adams #741254 Injured 11th May 1940 --> Hugh Charles Adams #85645 6th Sept. 1940.
Sgt James Harry Lacey #740042 DFM & Bar 'Ginger' -> later #60321
Sgt Donald Alistair Stewart McKay #740115 Service Number later 113322
Sgt William Harry Whitfield #740692 <-- Killed 11th May 1940 landing France "271 Sqn" -> 501 Sqn
Sgt Robert Chippindall Dafforn #740804 -> Later Commissioned #81674
Sgt Paul Casewell Powe Farnes #741447 Wing Commander (SGT) P C Farnes 501 DFM later 88437

Apr 1940
Sgt David Ian Kirton #550500 His first squadron posting was to 501 at Tangmere on 27th April but this proved a short stay as he went to 65 Squadron, equipped with Spitfires, at Hornchurch on 5th May KIA Aug. 8, 1940

May 1940 "11 Airmen Pilots at 31 May"
Sgt Percy Frederick Morfill #564749 DFM later #47655
F/Sgt Alfred Alexander Payne #90601 MiD
Sgt John Ernest Proctor #563641 Service Number : 44131 --> later DFC
Sgt John Eric Loverseed #907964 AFC
Sgt Arthur Owen Lewis #566649 Claim 27th May 1940 "Killed June 8th 1940" Hurricane P3347 SD-N Sgt Lewis

July 1940
Sgt Frederick John Powell Dixon #742124 Killed 11th July 1940
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  #32  
Old 20th November 2014, 17:07
paulmcmillan paulmcmillan is offline
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Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

I note a mix of RAFVR pilots 74nnnn and a few numbers of RAF boy/aircraft Apprentices that gained their wings.

Loverseed is interesting as he is technically RAFVR from Sept 1939 and it would have been a challenge for him to be operational by May 1940 , however he was a pre-war RAF officer pilot who few for the Republicans during the Spanish Civil War. He was then removed from RAF reserve. He rejoined RAF as NCO in Nov 1939
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  #33  
Old 20th November 2014, 17:13
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

Hi guys

Possibly Jammy took the place of a junior and inexperienced 501 Squadron NCO (hence the reason that some were aboard the ill-fated Bombay) for the flight to France?

Just a thought

Cheers
Brian
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  #34  
Old 20th November 2014, 21:48
Tom Semenza Tom Semenza is offline
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Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

As an aside, Paul's listing of NCO pilots appears to solve another 501 mystery man. Namely Arthur Owen Lewis. In the past he has been listed as "A. A. Lewis." The Watkins/Listemann book has him so listed without further detail. Further both Brian Cull in First of the Few and Norman Franks in RAF Fighter Command Losses, Vol. 1 show "Sgt. A. A. Lewis" as MiA on 08 June 40 in Hurricane I P3347 (SD-N). However as both point out he is not listed by the Commonwealth War Graves Commision, nor is Arthur Owen Lewis. Interestingly, his loss in not noted by Watkins & Listemann, nor is it found in Peter Cornwell's The Battle of France Then and Now.

I have found him listed as a PoW on the RAF Commands website listing:

357 47913 Lewis A O 566649 RAF

Tom

Last edited by Tom Semenza; 20th November 2014 at 21:49. Reason: spacing
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  #35  
Old 21st November 2014, 12:11
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Chris Goss Chris Goss is online now
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Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

I know we are going off piste but can confirm that Sgt A O Lewis was lost with 501 Sqn on 8 Jun 40 near Decima (?). However, first note of being POW did not come until 6 Feb 41 when he wrote to his father saying he was at Eughien (?) in Belgium. Official confirmation came 25 Mar 41 when he was in Stalag Luft 2
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  #36  
Old 22nd November 2014, 16:57
Martin Gleeson Martin Gleeson is offline
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Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

Hallo,

Not sure if this has been posted already but the AIR 81 file for Sgt. A.O. Lewis is number 829. The Hurricane serial is not listed on the index and unfortunately, in my limited experience of AIR 81 files, if a serial is not shown on the index it usually is not contained in the body of the file.

'Decima' was the RAF codename for Echemines airfield in the 'South Champagne area' of France. (From the AIR 35/63 file at Kew).

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.
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  #37  
Old 13th February 2018, 13:41
Bradpayne Bradpayne is offline
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Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

Jammy Payne was my grandfather, father to my father Alec payne who also served in the RAF in 81 Squadron. My father is 87 years old and his father jammy Payne was indead the oldest fighter pilot in the Battle of Britain. The D.A entry is incorrect as his name was Alfred Alexander Payne, some how we don't know how but his initials have been entered incorrectly which is annoying as at the Battle of Britain monuments his initials are scribed in incorrectly also. I will get my father to post more info now we are members of this forum.
Brad Payne
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  #38  
Old 7th November 2018, 20:39
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Bruce Lander Bruce Lander is offline
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Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

Hi,
From the book "One Pilot's War" by W.A.Wilkinson;:- On 15 th June the
Author (who had joined 501 as a new Sgt Pilot on 22 May) flew a barely flyable Hurricane from Caen to Tangmere with 3 other u/s Hurricanes led by
Senior pilot F/Sgt "Jammy" Payne on arrival they were greeted by S/Ldr.G.Lott of 43 Sq and briefly attached to that unit (Lott and Payne being old acquaintances) after 3 days leave the author and "Jammy" rejoined 43 but were then ordered to fly 2 Hurricanes to Croyden to rejoin 501. Between then and July 4th when 501 moved to Middle Wallop several of the original pilots were posted to OTU's "Jammy" probably being one of them.
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  #39  
Old 8th November 2018, 13:25
paulmcmillan paulmcmillan is offline
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Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

Bruce


Thanks or that

Alsoo, there is a picture of 91018 F/Sgt. Alfred Alexander Payne in Geoffrey Wellums “First Light” so he must have either been on 92 Sqn at some time or he was on the same station. I think this was at Croydon ?


Wellum joined 92 Sqn May 1940, and Payne was in France by 11th May so this must have been AFTER the Battle Of France -

So "rejoined 43 but were then ordered to fly 2 Hurricanes to Croyden to rejoin 501. Between then and July 4th when 501 moved to Middle Wallop several of the original pilots were posted to OTU's "Jammy" probably being one of them."

He was in photo with P/O John Samuel Bryson and Sgt Peter Raoul Eyles

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...=payne&f=false


Bryson was killed 24th Sept 1940 and Eyles on 20th Sept

I suspect he was on 92 Sqn but when ? So the photo had to be taken between June and Sept 1940 but based on email above maybe June to July 1940 if Payne only on 501 at time

So did Payne move to 92 Sqn or was he in photo when he shared field while with another Sqn

Wellums account I think suggest Payne on 92 Sqn



Would indicate that Paynes was either in 92 Sqn at a time or 501 Sqn at Croydon
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  #40  
Old 8th November 2018, 14:26
paulmcmillan paulmcmillan is offline
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Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

Brad

I hope you see this


I don't suppose you have the Service history or Log Book of your grandfather 91018 F/Sgt. Alfred Alexander Payne and can tell us where he served in May to Oct 1940 ?

I note your father Alec served in 81 Sqn 1952-55

Many thanks

Paul
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