Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 25th April 2014, 23:43
paulmcmillan paulmcmillan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 807
paulmcmillan
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

Just found out there was a Flt Sgt Payne in 29 Sqn in early 1930'a you reverted back to his trade on completion of his service I wonder if this is our man especially as a photo of him shows him to be much older than others in 501 Sqn at time

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10th August 2014, 23:52
d kelsey
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

Sorry I am very new to this. "Jammy Payne" was my wife's grandfather, born in 1900 and died in 1949. We are researching his records and hope to come back with more information soon. His initials were not A. D. but in fact A. A. (Alfred Alexander)
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 23rd October 2014, 21:36
paulmcmillan paulmcmillan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 807
paulmcmillan
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

Default
My favourite for Payne now is F/Sgt Alfred Alexander Payne 90601 the reason for this is purely circumstantial but

1) The old posting from 2010 quotes him as 'A A Payne' no source I know but interesting none the less

http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/2396...adron-1939-40/

2) I know he was a Flight Sgt in France 1940 with 501 Sqn as I have seen a photo of him and he is ranked such

3) He is on 1st January, 1941 MiD List

4) I guessed at some point from Summer 1940 he as made up to W/O. He is in the Sept 1941 AFL as A A Payne with Graduation date 1 Apr 1941

All guesses work I know but I think he is a good candidate

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 23rd October 2014, 23:32
Tom Semenza Tom Semenza is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 527
Tom Semenza
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

Paul,

The London Gazette shows a W/O Alfred Alexander Payne being commissioned to F/O on 9 Jan. 1945. However his NCO service number is given as 91018 (officer 56355). Is this the same individual?

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 24th October 2014, 00:56
paulmcmillan paulmcmillan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 807
paulmcmillan
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

This is him

91018 F/Sgt. Alfred Alexander Payne

Service Number between 90601 93600 RFC UK Civilians 01-Aug-1917 30-Sep-1917

He is RAF Muster Roll 1918 so born around 1901 ?

Rank Boy
Organisation Royal Air Force
Trade Boy
Rank (Army / Navy) Boy
Trade (Army / Navy) Boy Service

Prisoner of war No
Join date August 9th 1917
Pay shillings 1
Terms of enlistment O.E.



bMD register Births Dec 1900 (>99%)

Payne Alfred Alexander Medway 2a 630
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 24th October 2014, 18:26
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,606
Chris Goss is on a distinguished road
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

Wouldn't 40 be very old for a SNCO pilot in the BofB? He would be twice as old as the vast majority of his contemporaries
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 24th October 2014, 19:07
paulmcmillan paulmcmillan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 807
paulmcmillan
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

Chris

If you look at a picture of him here in posting #11 Bruce Lander's you can see he is much older than all the other NCO's of the Sqn who are about 20

I have been mulling this over.. Bill Wilkinson described Payne as a "senior pilot" and that his family had moved fromto Bognor Regis at the outbreak of the war, which implies that he may have had a child or children.

I have assumed Senior was in Rank, but it occurred to me it may have been age. I also have a theory why not W/O by 1940. However, he died in Chichester which is near Bognor Regis and he had family (I believe may have had up to 4 children)

Maybe he called "Jammy" because he was on Ops at the age when most of his other colleagues of a same age and experience would be instructing some where or other. It would also explain why an ace with 5 kills NOT operational during BoB. Basically, he should never of been on ops in BoF in first place!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 24th October 2014, 19:13
paulmcmillan paulmcmillan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 807
paulmcmillan
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

Payne was not on 501 Sqn (as far as I can see) prior to them arriving in France, I can see him being asked to ferry a replacement Hurricane to France (in May 1940 - I believe he could have been on 92 Sqn) and he just hung around and ended up on Ops - I could see why he was called 'Jammy' by his fellow pilots and maybe this it why it has been so hard to identify him. Chris Shore in Aces High Vol 1 and 2 could not positively ID him. Probably the most noticeable 'Unknown Ace' left of 1940
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 24th October 2014, 23:29
Tom Semenza Tom Semenza is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 527
Tom Semenza
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

According to the Free BDM website he was born in 1900 in Medway, Kent.

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12th November 2014, 20:56
Bruce Lander's Avatar
Bruce Lander Bruce Lander is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lees, Oldham. UK
Posts: 401
Bruce Lander is on a distinguished road
Re: Flt Sgt Jammy Payne 501 Squadron 1940

"Jammy" Payne was certainly on 501 Sq on the day it arrived in France. According to "Kenneth Hawkeye Lee" by Nick Thomas and also "No 501 Squadron" by Phil Listemann on May 10th a section comprising F/O A.D.Pickup (L.2037 SD-L); F/O M.F.C.Smith (L.1949 SD-O) and F/Sgt.Payne (L.1866 SD-P) on sector patrol became separated and Pickup engaged a Do.17 shooting it down.

Bruce Lander
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
British Second-Line Aircraft lost in France Sept. 1939 - June 1940. Martin Gleeson Allied and Soviet Air Forces 22 18th October 2016 00:40
RAF losses 5./6. March 1945 JanZ Allied and Soviet Air Forces 13 25th February 2012 13:40
Any dispute about interpreting the BofB? tcolvin Allied and Soviet Air Forces 57 17th October 2010 22:31
Pilots' Forenames Steve Brew Allied and Soviet Air Forces 0 14th June 2008 12:26
Losses of B-17's in RCM role paul peters Allied and Soviet Air Forces 4 15th February 2006 21:57


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net