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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #31  
Old 22nd April 2017, 21:19
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Good evening,

the ranking I-16 pilot is one of the top aces that is most difficult to determine, because
  • the I-16 fought in 5 different wars
  • the victory logs of the aces given by different sources hardly ever match
  • the decimals of the shared kills are often unknown
To address the last point I calculated the average of all the Soviet shared kills whose decimals I ever found. The result was 0,35, which I assume might be to high.
Based on this I tried to compare the I-16 scores of the most promising aces:
  • if we take the scores given in the book of Polak serious, Golubyev indeed might be the top I-16 ace with about 23+12sh kills in that type
  • based on the scores in the book of Bykov, the I-16 top ace might be Gritsevets with 9+24sh kills in that type
  • based on the scores given in the Polikarpov book of Maslov the most successful I-16 pilot might be Muravitzkiy with 12+35sh kills in the I-16

Thanks for your input,

Michael
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  #32  
Old 22nd May 2017, 16:35
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

...according to this website
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/g/golubev_vf.htm
Vasilii Golubyev has a total of 17+16shared kills only.
Can anybody tell me the story behind the well-known photo that shows him in front of an aircraft with 39 victory stars ?

Cheers,

Michael
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  #33  
Old 7th November 2018, 10:07
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Good morning,

one of the top I-16 pilots is Boris Safonov.
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/s/safonov.htm
I've just read "Boris Safonov, L'As du Grand Nord" by Yourii Rybin.
He indicates that Safonov scored 13 kills until October 1941.
I think this includes his kill on 5Aug which seems to have been confirmed belatedly but neither his kill on 6Aug nor his group kills.

Cheers,

Michael
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  #34  
Old 14th November 2018, 21:42
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Good evening Gentlemen,

Safonov is the 3rd or 4th ranking I-16 ace depending on the decimals of Gritsewets' group kills. Will we ever know these ?:

rank/name/I-16 kills (group kills counted as decimals)
1. Грицевец Сергей Иванович = 10-21 [9+24]
2. Пидтыкан Иван Дмитриевич = 16,14 [12+10]
3. Харитонов Василий Николаевич = 14,48 [10+16]
4. Сафонов Борис Феоктистович = 13,83 [13+5] according to Yourii Rybin
5. Пилипенко Иван Маркович = 12,96 [10+13]
6. Оскаленко Дмитрий Ефимович = 12,45-12,95 [12+3]
7. Абрамов Пётр Петрович = 7,42-14,92 [5+25]
8. Игнатьев Николай Петрович = 12,51 [8+13]
9. Цоколаев Геннадий Дмитриевич = 11,95 [9+10]
10. Кравченко Григорий Пантелеевич = 11,79 [11+5] ?
11. Кузнецов Николай Фёдорович = 11,57 [8+11]
12. Баранов Михаил Семёнович = 11,33 [10+3]

Michael
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  #35  
Old 14th November 2018, 22:10
Håkan Håkan is online now
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Hello Michael,

The short answer on Gritsevet is probably no! There are 12 known group claims from his time in Spain that are given as only shared and nothing more. Two more is credited as shared with another pilot (1/2). To make the solving of this even more improbable is that according to his "official" record (the one used for decorations etc.) he is credited with another 10 shared victories with no info on whatsoever. With so much time pasting since the end of this conflict the probability to new info to cover all this is slim.
The other approach is the one taken by Johannes and Nick Hector in their tread on another place here on TOCH, which is most interesting!

Best wishes/Håkan
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  #36  
Old 15th November 2018, 13:01
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Good morning Håkan,

that's a pity.
Can you tell me how many pilots were involved in the first kill of Dmitrii Oskalenko ?
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/o/oskalenko.htm

Have a nice Thursday,

Michael
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  #37  
Old 15th November 2018, 13:55
Håkan Håkan is online now
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Hello again,

Unfortunately not, this is also a claim given as just "shared". But this is perhaps solveable by some of the real Russian expert on this forum since the ORB for 194 IAP is perhaps available.

Best wishes/Håkan
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  #38  
Old 15th November 2018, 14:14
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Good afternoon Håkan,

do you know how many pilots took part in the group kills that were scored by Pyotr Abramov in 1939 ?
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/a/abramov_pp.htm

Kind regards,

Michael
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  #39  
Old 16th November 2018, 10:31
Håkan Håkan is online now
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Hello again,

These claims were also only credited as "shared".
As I've said before - buy Bykov's book (Михаил Быков - Все асы Сталина 1936–1953 гг.) on Google Play and then you can search it. The price is very low (~7€) and you can also look into the books before you buy them. My Russian is non-existing but it's easy to search the book for names, dates, types, units etc.

Best wishes/Håkan
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  #40  
Old 16th November 2018, 10:53
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Good morning Håkan,

I'm considering to buy the book and 7Euro is definitely not too expensive for such an opus.
https://play.google.com/store/books/...d=mGw5AwAAQBAJ
But I'm also reluctant to possess books that I cannot read and hope it'll be translated one day.

Cheers,

Michael
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