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  #1  
Old 18th April 2011, 14:49
vinnie vinnie is offline
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Alfred Miksch' black 5, 13 and 20

Hi everybody,

I'm looking for some information concerning 8./JG 1 ace Ofw. Alfred Miksch. Apparently he flew in Me-109 G-6 black 5, black 13 and black 20 in the summer of 1943 until 1 December 1943 (KIA). I know that he crashed in black 13 (G-6 WrkNr 140007) on 1.12.43, but what happened to black 5 and black 20?

Thanks for your help!
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Old 18th April 2011, 15:01
John Beaman John Beaman is offline
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Re: Alfred Miksch' black 5, 13 and 20

Bf 109G-6, 15429, Miksch, Fw. Alfred, 37+, 8./JG 1, schwarzes5 +, Grau 66 fuselage crosses, 40-48 wei§ abschu§balken on rudder., Later KIA on 1.12.43. Prien suggests that this machine was later re-painted as '20'., DKiGRLV, Prien & Rodeike, JG 1 & 11, p.395 photos; Defending the Reich, p.149-50 photos, Leeuwarden100%F


Bf 109G-6, 140007, Miksch, Fw. Alfred, 37+, III./8.JG 1, schwarzes 13 +,
01-Dec-43, KIA due to Luftkampf., DKiG, .Lw.Bfh.Mitte/RLV, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.24; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, X.2, p.200; Prien & Rodeike, JG 1 & 11, I, p.616; Mombeek, Defending the Reich, p.204, 30km nordöstlich Hasselt, bei Bree, 100%F


Bf 109G-6, 15429, Miksch, Fw. Alfred, 37+, III./8.JG 1, schwarzes20 +, Grau 66 fuselage crosses, 37 wei§ abschu§balken on rudder., 08-Oct-43, Notlandung due to Luftkampf., DKiG. Had this machine previously been code 'schwarzes 5'?, Lw.Bfh.Mitte/RLV, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.22; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, X.2, p.199; Prien & Rodeike, JG 1 & 11, I, p.610, pgs.347, 395 photos; Defending the Reich, p.151 photos., Vehnemoor, 25% F
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Old 18th April 2011, 17:27
vinnie vinnie is offline
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Re: Alfred Miksch' black 5, 13 and 20

Thanks for the reply, John!
It seems that Miksch flew in black 20 Werk Nr. 15429 since he entered 8./JG 1 (most likely july 1943); he poses in front of it, and at that moment the rudder shows 37 victories (Mombeek, p. 165). Other pictures from the summer of 1943 indicate that Miksch also flew black 5 at the same time. Interesting to note is that the Mombeek book shows black 5 with a small 5, and another picture (small picture, a little higher than the bottom picture) shows a bigger black 5, with white outlining (p. 164). The latter version was common practice in 8./JG 1 in this period.
It could be that black 5 was the same aircraft as black 20, though it looks like if black 20 became Miksch' Me-109 in july 1943, and in the same period he also used black 5. Perhaps he started flying in black 13 from 8 october and on (till 1 December 1943).
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Old 18th April 2011, 20:13
mdejong mdejong is offline
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Re: Alfred Miksch' black 5, 13 and 20

those are the pictures I have from his planes...

Do you have other??


best
martin


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Old 18th April 2011, 20:17
mdejong mdejong is offline
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Re: Alfred Miksch' black 5, 13 and 20




martin
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Old 18th April 2011, 21:59
Cpt_Farrel Cpt_Farrel is offline
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Re: Alfred Miksch' black 5, 13 and 20

Looking at Black 20 the camoflage seems very much "unbroken" were the "5" would have been so I find it unlikely that it's the same aircraft.

BTW I believe that 8./JG1 used yellow outlines on their numerals.

Cheers! / Anders
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Old 19th April 2011, 11:44
vinnie vinnie is offline
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Re: Alfred Miksch' black 5, 13 and 20

Thanks for the help so far, guys!

Unfortunately I have no other pictures of Miksch' planes, but I also tend to say that black 5 and black 20 were different aircraft. If this is true, the situation would be as follows:

-Fw. Alfred Miksch entered 8./JG 1 in the summer of 1943 and used both black 5 and black 20. Both machines were G-6/R-6 (correct me if I'm wrong). Black 20 carried Werk Nr. 15429, and black 5 has an unknown WerkNr. When I compare the pictures, I would say that the numbers on black 5 were repainted (with white or yellow outlining), and perhaps the plane crashed while someone else was flying it. It would be interesting to find a losses list of 8./JG 1.

-After the crashlanding Miksch had on 8 october 1943, he started flying in black 13, the G-6 in which he crashed on 1.12.43.

If anyone knows more, let me know!
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Old 20th April 2011, 03:09
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
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Re: Alfred Miksch' black 5, 13 and 20

Look at the camo spot over the kills on mdejong's last 2 posted photos, along with the camo on the starboard wing. Different lighting, along with the last photo being of poor quality, but the same plane.

Bf 109G-6, 15429, Mattern, Fw. Erich, , III., 8., JG 1, schwarzes, 20 +, , , 03-Nov-43, Notlandung due to Luftkampf with Viermots and P-47s., , Lw.Bfh.Mitte/RLV, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.23; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, X.2, p.199; Prien & Rodeike, JG 1 & 11, I, p.613, , Marx, 100%, F, , ,

Last edited by Jim P.; 20th April 2011 at 03:11. Reason: added loss
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Old 20th April 2011, 09:52
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ouidjat ouidjat is offline
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Re: Alfred Miksch' black 5, 13 and 20

Hi,

I saw the same pattern than you did Jim. No Doubt.

Franck.
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Old 20th April 2011, 10:21
mdejong mdejong is offline
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Re: Alfred Miksch' black 5, 13 and 20

perhaps a better picture from his plane at the airfield.

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