Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 1st April 2024, 18:43
Peter Cook Peter Cook is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 284
Peter Cook is on a distinguished road
Did KG 54 take part in the Warmwell Raid on 25 August 1940

According to Siegfried Radtke's history of KG 54, Ju 88s of II Gruppe took part in the raid on Portland, Weymouth and Warmwell airfield on 25 August 'in association with II./KG 51'. However, the Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung makes no mention of KG 54 in its detailed listing of all the Luftflotte 3 units that took part in this attack, which identifies specific Geschwader (KG 51, JG 2, JG 27, JG 53, ZG 2, ZG 76 and V(Z)./LG 1), Gruppen and numbers of aircraft.

Is Radtke correct?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 1st April 2024, 18:47
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,432
Chris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura about
Re: Did KG 54 take part in the Warmwell Raid on 25 August 1940

No evidence that KG 54 was there-just I, II and III./KG 51
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 1st April 2024, 20:49
Peter Cook Peter Cook is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 284
Peter Cook is on a distinguished road
Re: Did KG 54 take part in the Warmwell Raid on 25 August 1940

Thanks Chris, that was my assumption, however several authors appear to have picked up on Radtke's inclusion of KG 54 in this raid.

Peter
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 1st April 2024, 22:40
Nick Beale's Avatar
Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Exeter, England
Posts: 5,937
Nick Beale has a spectacular aura aboutNick Beale has a spectacular aura aboutNick Beale has a spectacular aura about
Re: Did KG 54 take part in the Warmwell Raid on 25 August 1940

On the other hand, if you take a look at my website: http://www.ghostbombers.com/1940/Eag...le/edbb07.html

(Starting from the third paragraph on the page)
__________________
Nick Beale
http://www.ghostbombers.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2nd April 2024, 11:22
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,432
Chris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura about
Re: Did KG 54 take part in the Warmwell Raid on 25 August 1940

Looks like KG 54 were stood down as I./KG 51 sent 9 ac, II 16 and III 12 ac to attack Warmwell with no mention at all of KG 54
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2nd April 2024, 12:00
Nick Beale's Avatar
Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Exeter, England
Posts: 5,937
Nick Beale has a spectacular aura aboutNick Beale has a spectacular aura aboutNick Beale has a spectacular aura about
Re: Did KG 54 take part in the Warmwell Raid on 25 August 1940

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Goss View Post
Looks like KG 54 were stood down as I./KG 51 sent 9 ac, II 16 and III 12 ac to attack Warmwell with no mention at all of KG 54
No argument there but if KG 54 were repeatedly put on standby for a raid that kept being postponed, you can see how Radtke might have got the idea that they actually had taken part.
__________________
Nick Beale
http://www.ghostbombers.com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2nd April 2024, 12:24
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,432
Chris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura about
Re: Did KG 54 take part in the Warmwell Raid on 25 August 1940

KG 51 and KG 54 seemed to be the go to Geschwader for such airfield attacks in Luftflotte 3's AOR
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2nd April 2024, 12:57
Andy Mitchell's Avatar
Andy Mitchell Andy Mitchell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Biggin Hill, UK
Posts: 800
Andy Mitchell will become famous soon enoughAndy Mitchell will become famous soon enough
Re: Did KG 54 take part in the Warmwell Raid on 25 August 1940

Peter,

For completeness, here are the details from the Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung Nr 1 of 26.8.40.

Flieger Korps V
9 Ju 88 of I./KG.51 start at 16:20 hrs.
18:27-18:32 hrs. Attack on Warmwell Airfield
Amount of bombs dropped: 36 SC 250. Drop height
4500-5000 m, hits in the hangars on the western edge of the field and in the accommodations east of the field; strong fires observed. Probably 15-20 planes on the tarmac destroyed.

16 Ju 88 of the II./KG. 51 Start at 16:20 hrs.
18.29-18.35 hrs. Attack on Warmwell Airfield
from 4500 m with 48 SC 250 and 16 Flam 250,
Hit in accommodations and in the two south hangers were seen.


12 Ju 88 of III./KG 51 start at 16:25 hrs.
18:27 - 18:30 hrs. Attack on Warmwell Airfield with 30 SC 250 and 10 Flam 250 from 4800-5200 m.
A row of hits in small hangars and buildings on the southern edge of the "square" and a row of hits in aircraft on the southern edge of the "square" probably observed three planes destroyed, several damaged.

Jafü 3 provided the following escort:
JG.2 with 59 Me 109
JG. 27 with 74 Me 109
JG.53 with 81 Me 109
ZG. 2 with 46 Me 110
ZG. 76 with 37 Me 110
V./(Z) LG. 1 with 20 Me 110

Above translated some while ago using Google Translate.

Also
from Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung Nr 9 26.8.40

The Seenotdienst rescued 4 men from a Ju 88 of II./KG.51 from the crews who had crashed on August 25, 1940

and from Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung Nr 11 26.8.40

Reconnaissance result: (V. Fliegerkorps):
2 Bf 110 of 4./(F)121 (start 1:50 p.m. and 5:10 p.m.)
for Channel monitoring and post raid target pictures of Portsmouth.
No traffic in the Channel. Unable to take post raid photos due to cloud cover.
WarmweIl airfield: occupancy 40 (21-19-0),
__________________
Best Regards

Andy Mitchell

LuftwaffeData Wiki including the history of Aufklgr. 122
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2nd April 2024, 21:00
Peter Cook Peter Cook is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 284
Peter Cook is on a distinguished road
Re: Did KG 54 take part in the Warmwell Raid on 25 August 1940

Thank you Andy and Nick for the additional information. I have a translation of the Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung for this date and one of the aspects that has convinced me that KG54 did not take part in this operation is that the Einzelmeldung is very detailed in its description of the units, number of aircraft, etc., and so it would be very surprising if KG54's possible role was overlooked by the detail-oriented officer that wrote the report.

Peter
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2nd April 2024, 22:06
Peter T Peter T is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 167
Peter T is on a distinguished road
Re: Did KG 54 take part in the Warmwell Raid on 25 August 1940

I have been working in detail on KG 54, and have no real proof that they took part in the raid. However, one has to be very careful with the Luftflotte 3 Meldungen, they are not complete. Several operations are missing.
Peter
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
JG 54 losses on (or around) 10 August 1943 Laurent Rizzotti Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 6 5th September 2012 19:56
RAF losses 5./6. March 1945 JanZ Allied and Soviet Air Forces 13 25th February 2012 13:40
Luftwaffe Air Sea Rescue in 1940 Andy Saunders Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 8 2nd September 2010 20:15
JG 54 loss on 18 August 1944 Laurent Rizzotti Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 9 28th August 2009 08:47
Book on French AF 1939-40? The_Catman Allied and Soviet Air Forces 68 10th August 2008 16:58


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net