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Pre-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation Please use this forum to discuss Military and Naval Aviation before the Second World War.

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  #1  
Old 29th April 2020, 14:46
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft

Hello,


Currently on ebay there is a photo of a R.E.8 of B Flight 5 Squadron RAF at:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-Royal...8AAOSw-2xeqD4r


The aircraft appears to have a doners dedication forward of the cockpit something No.15. Can anyone read it ?


Regards,


Clint
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  #2  
Old 29th April 2020, 15:45
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft

Hi Clint

Tricky one!

There were as far as I can locate only three presentation groups which both reached 15 and used RE.8, Baroda (India), Gold Coast and Zanzibar.

Since we have one single word only Baroda and Zanzibar are applicable

Next problem is that the presentation was re-used on more than one aircraft
Baroda No 15: A3704, C2252 and C2986
Zanzibar No 15: B5012, F1586

Final problem is that I cannot locate any of them with No 5Sq.
However photo was taken in Sep 1918 which means most likely a late production aircraft is the one we are looking for which gives us two choices

1) Baroda No 15 C2986 which is only listed as with 1 AAP (whatever that was)
2) Zanzibar No 15 F1586 no unit.
Since F1586 seems to have been built late 1918 and no record of it until 1.1.1919 my guess (mind you guess ) would thus be C2986

Cheers
Stig
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  #3  
Old 29th April 2020, 16:03
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft

Thanks Stig,


I like your reasoning. Absent any countervailing evidence C2986 seems the likely candidate. I've just checked an AB publication and AAP equals Aircraft Acceptance Park. I wonder if its possible to deduce whether 5 Squadron received its aircraft from 1 AAP? Were they geographically close?



I'm equally curious but what is the point in having more than one Baroda No.15? or of course any other duplications. Was it to replace earlier lost examples of presentation aircraft of the same name perhaps? I'll have to check the AB site myself in a moment and see if A3704 & C2252 were lost.


Edit



Having just checked AB for the serials A3704 was lost, so that fits, but if 1 AAP was the first destination for C2986 and the date given was 01.12.1918 that rules out C2986 too as on the back of the photo the date is September, so perhaps C2252 after all?


Next edit


Scratch that. No reason to suppose C2252 ever served with 5 Squadron.




Regards,


Clint
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  #4  
Old 29th April 2020, 16:39
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft

Well Clint

I use that site myself a lot when it comes to British aircraft but it is no better than the details located.

Lots of details are missing.
I don't know when any of the aircraft in the C batch actually were delivered to RFC/RAF but surely it must have been earlier than Dec 1918?
Anyway I chose C2986, since C2282 was with No 52 Sqn all its active life.
(There is of course the possibillity that the text on the flip side is faulty. After all 5 vs 52 is not an impossible mistake)

1AAP was based in Coventry-Radford while both No 5 and No 52 Sqds were in France, so no obvious connection there.

Also the reasoning behind presentation aircraft in WW 1 and WW 2 were quite different. In WW 1 when a country or individual had paid for an aircraft that aircraft (and its name) should always be in use. So if one aircraft was w/o for any kind of reason, the name was transferred over to another aircraft. During WW 2 the reasoning was different and if an aircraft crashed that name was "gone for ever".

Cheers
Stig
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  #5  
Old 11th May 2020, 13:11
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft

Hello,


Currently on ebay a photo of RE.8 C2926 of 5 Squadron seemingly named High Spen at:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-Royal...gAAOSwKW5euDaX


Seemingly the seller is implying that it is the same aircraft as #1 in this thread, if I understand the reference to the 6th image correctly. But they are clearlt two different aircraft although both of 5 Squadron.



Regards,


Clint
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  #6  
Old 11th May 2020, 14:05
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft

Clint

I think the seller only wants to draw the attention to the fact it is the same crew.

Odd name though....

Chers
Stig
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  #7  
Old 11th May 2020, 21:01
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft

Stig,


I looked up High Spen. It was a mining village. Perhaps the pit owners donated money for the aircraft and named it after the town and colliery?

Regards,


Clint
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  #8  
Old 11th May 2020, 21:31
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft

Even more odd Clint

None of my sources mention any gift aircraft from that village.
Perhaps someone with No 5 Squadron had his origins from stated place?

From what I can recall that would also be very unusual since personal markings was not common, was it?

Cheers
Stig
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  #9  
Old 11th May 2020, 22:26
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft

Hi Stig,


I wonder if the owners of the mine also donated aircraft named after other colleries that they owned? You mention sources, any indication that any other RFC/RAF aircraft named after mining villages at all? Purest supposition on my part and there may be nothing to it. But given the social background of the people from High Spen at the time would it be likely any would become a pilot?


Regards,


Clint
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  #10  
Old 12th May 2020, 01:09
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft

Difficult to say without going through all of them.

Checking those donated from Great Britain, there were some that certainly came from cities/towns and so on.

If I had been an expert on smaller villages and the like in UK, I would have been in a much better position to evaluate all the names for you, but sorry, I am not

Also the aircraft itself C2926 is not listed as a presentation aircraft!

Although social background was (and still is) important if you wanted to be an officer, RFC and later RAF needed far more pilots than the upper classes could produce. I have not studied the subject, but surely there must have been a large number from, should we say, the working classes who became pilots?

Cheers
Stig
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