Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15th December 2005, 22:49
BlakeField BlakeField is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 11
BlakeField
Hans Philipp

I just read on the internet (yes, I know - a not-so-reliable reference source) that the victor over Hans Philipp on Oct 8, 1943 was Robert S. Johnson of the 56th FG.

I read it in an interview with Johnson conducted in the mid 1990's. I am curious as to why I have never read this before, but more curious about whether or not it is true.

Can anyone point me to a solid reference on this?

As a side note, a number of years ago, perhaps in 1998 or so, I briefly corresponded with a guy in Europe who had the commemorative pistol awarded to Hans Philipp in honor of his receiving the Oak Leaves to the RK. This guy did not know who Hans Philipp was, and was asking about him on a message board. It might even have been this one. He emailed me photos of the gun. I was mighty impressed, even though I had to wonder how he came about that gun...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16th December 2005, 17:23
BlakeField BlakeField is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 11
BlakeField
Re: Hans Philipp

Anybody...?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 16th December 2005, 17:45
John Beaman John Beaman is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
Posts: 2,130
John Beaman is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Hans Philipp

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeField
Anybody...?
First, patience. You only posted the question yesterday. This is not McDonalds.

Second, what is the internet source? How reliable is it? Aces' memories are not the most reliable source.

You might want to read this, if you've not already seen it.

http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/Philip.htm
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 16th December 2005, 21:04
BlakeField BlakeField is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 11
BlakeField
Re: Hans Philipp

I apologize - I had no idea I was offending anyone.

Here is the link that I was reading:

http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_rsj.html

It is an interview by Military History with Johnson, and the interviewer asks. "I understand that Oberstleutnant Hans Philipp, leader of JG.1, was one of your victories?" to which Johnson replies, "...I found out 50 years later that my fifth victory was Hans Philipp, a 206-victory ace from the Russian Front."

I was intrigued by this, as my reading on that subject has not been inconsiderable, yet I had heard nothing of this before.

I was just curious if anyone knew another source for this.

Thanks for the steer to the web link. I have indeed read this piece before.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17th December 2005, 01:16
Don Pearson Don Pearson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Monroe NJ
Posts: 331
Don Pearson
Re: Hans Philipp

A search here does indicate that Johnson scored on this date

http://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/afhra/

Unfortunately not much detail.

Don
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17th December 2005, 02:13
Klaus Schiffler Klaus Schiffler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 37
Klaus Schiffler
Re: Hans Philipp

The loss list in Jochen Prien's book, Jagdgeschwader 1 und 11, indicates that Hans Phillip was killed in combat with B-17s. He was flying Fw 190A-6, Red One, W.Nr. 530 407. He was flying with his wingman, Hans-G. Reinhardt, who rammed a B-17 and had to force-land, being wounded. These two pilots were flying in a Rotte (two aircraft). Reinhardt stated that Philipp had shot down his B-17 (206th kill) but his aircraft had taken hits and then flew down into the lower layers of clouds and did not return.

Johnson's statement is that he attacked four Fw 190s and shot down the flight leader. I don't think this could be Philipps since he was flying only with his wingman. Johnson's victory could be any number of Fw 190s also lost by JG 1 and 11.

I don't know how Johnson got the idea that he shot down Philipps but it does help the ego to image one shot down a top ace rather than an ordinary fighter pilot. Perhaps Martin Caidin gave him the idea as co-author of Thunderbolt. Caidin's record speaks for itself.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19th December 2005, 00:04
Leo Etgen Leo Etgen is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,097
Leo Etgen is on a distinguished road
Hans Philipp

Hi all

I too had read the article in which Johnson claims to have shot down Philipp. However, while researching a bit more on this incident I noticed that Johnson's fifth victory could not possibly been Philipp as he claimed his fourth and fifth victories on 10 October and Philipp was killed on 8 October. However, Johnson did claim a Fw 190 between 15.35-55 over Lingen on 8 October. Wood's 1943 Allied Claims file also lists this victory as having been Philipp. Wood also lists Philipp as having been killed in combat with P-47 fighters over Hardenhaus in Fw 190 A-6 "Red 3" (W.Nr. 530 407). Aside of this and the previously mentioned article, there is no other credible information that would substantiate Johnson's claim. It is an interesting possibility but probably not much more than that.

Horrido!

Leo
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 19th December 2005, 17:35
BlakeField BlakeField is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 11
BlakeField
Re: Hans Philipp

Thanks for the responses, gents.

It is pretty much as I had thought and as Leo phrased it: an interesting possibility, but not much more.

I have read with interest over the last several years as various researchers have been able to match sortie lists, locations, victory claims and loss lists and locations to say that some certain pilot had been the victor over another. A remarkable feat, considering the large numbers of aircraft aloft on any given day.

Regardless, it does not detract from Johnson's achievements; he was an aggressive and capable fighter pilot.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 20th December 2005, 03:46
Artist Artist is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NY-USA
Posts: 80
Artist is on a distinguished road
Re: Hans Philipp

A little off topic. I used to corespond with Johnson, and aggresive fighter pilot is the word. He used to get in much trouble for this. He felt it was his job to get between the enemy fighters and the bombers at all costs. Where his commanders looked for the best position to engage. Bob
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Olt Hans Marquardt Andy Fletcher Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 5 4th December 2014 02:08
Oblt. Hans Dortenmann BlakeField Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 1 14th October 2005 07:03
Lt. Echardt Roch, Lt. Hans Krug, II./JG 26 1940 Larry Hickey Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 10th September 2005 23:19
Hans Neidhold Peter T Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 25th August 2005 21:53
the next book of Hans Ring ???? Many Souffan Books and Magazines 0 8th January 2005 17:53


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:37.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net