Final tally for JG52 ?

[tmoj2000]

The claims are over 10,000...

Do we have information/opinions what the actual kills were ? How accurate is this number?

[Leo Etgen]

Hello tmoj2000

Here is a list that I have come across of the final victory totals of the various fighter units. Although the author admitted that it was based on dated material it should be reasonable close to the actual number of victories.

JG 52...11,000 / 10,500 (10,200 on Eastern Front)
JG 54....9,500 / 9,450 (8,750 on Eastern Front including strafing attacks)
JG 51....9,000 / 9,350 (8,435 on Eastern Front)
JG 3.....6,300 / 5,860 (4,810 on Eastern Front)
JG 53....4,000 / 4,100 (1,685 on Eastern Front)
JG 77....4,000 / 4,505 (2,830 in Russia and 497 in Africa)
JG 5.....3,500 / 3,300 (3,000 on Eastern Front)
JG 27....2,800 / 3,033 (270 on Eastern Front)
JG 26....2,700 / 2,500 (including 189 claims on Eastern Front)
JG 2.....2,500 / 2,400
JG 1.....1,500
JG 11....1,200
JG 6.....1,100
JG 300...1,000
JG 4.......600
JG 7.......400 / ~430 (~20 on Eastern Front)
JG 301....231
JG 302....214
JV 44.......50
NJG 1......2,173 night and 145 day claims

Horrido!

Leo

[tmoj2000]

Thanks Leo

I did the math with your data taking the lower figure for the claims and came up with a total of about 60,000 of which 40,000 on the eastern front......

The figures I have for combat losses of the USSR is in the range of 45,000-50,000...Of course one would have to account for losses due to Flak, axis minors air and other causes. But overall this would more or less be consistant with your data, with perhaps an overclaim in the range of 10-20%

The US admits to losing about 20,000 planes to the germans (all causes)... I dont have the figures for the RAF, I would assume that their losses would at least equal those of the US (on one hand they eventually had less planes than the US but on the other hand they had been fighting for 2.5 years more than the US)... So the 20,000 figure for luftwffe fighter kills on the western front seems also plausible, especially when you factor in losses from other countries (France, Belgium etc....)

[leonventer]

Originally Posted by tmoj2000

The claims are over 10,000...
Do we have information/opinions what the actual kills were ? How accurate is this number?

Here are totals from a few different sources:

• Hans Schreier says it's "over 10,800" in "JG 52: Das erfolgreichste Jagdgeschwader des II. Weltkrieges"
• Pawel Berger says it's "10,800" in his book "10 800 Sestrelu: Jagdgeschwader 52, Historie Nejuspesnejsi Stihaci Jednotky Vsech Dob"
• John Weal is all over the place in "Jagdgeschwader 52: The Experten". On the back cover, it's "some 9,000". On page 6, it's "well over 10,000". On page 120, he mentions that "one respected air historian" contends that the Geschwader accounted for "close on 10,600".
• Niko Fast doesn't provide a total in his multi-volume unit history, "Das Jagdgeschwader 52", but volume IV contains a detailed account of the unit's 10,000th victory on 2 Sep 1944.
• Bernd Barbas says that it's "over 10,000" in the two JG 52 Gruppe histories he's published thus far, namely "Die Geschichte der I. Gruppe des Jagdgechwaders 52" and "Die Geschichte der II. Gruppe des Jagdgeschwaders 52". He states that III. Gruppe had over 4000 victories and that II. Gruppe had over 3600. (Each volume contains a detailed Gruppe claims list, so once the remaining volume[s] are published, we should have a comprehensive claims list for the Geschwader.)
• Philippe Saintes says it's "around 10,685" in "Batailles Aeriennes #51: Histoire de la JG 52: L'escadre aux 11.000 victoires (2eme partie)". He provides the following Gruppe totals on page 103:
  Stab./JG 52 = +100
  I./JG 52 = 2,489
  II./JG 52 = 3,530
  III./JG 52 = 4,050
  13.(Slowakei)/JG 52 = 216
  15.(Kroat)/JG 52 = +300

Hope that helps,
Leon Venter

[tmoj2000]

Here are totals from a few different sources:

Thanks Leon, quite comprehensive

Do you know to what extent any of this has been cross checked with Soviet loss records ?

I am concerned by the fact that quite often "overclaims" can be as high as 100% or more (in any air force).

[Nikita Egorov]

Common ratio for german overclaim on the east is about 1,2 ~2,5 : 1, depends on year and sircumstances...

Originally Posted by tmoj2000

Thanks Leon, quite comprehensive

Do you know to what extent any of this has been cross checked with Soviet loss records ?

I am concerned by the fact that quite often "overclaims" can be as high as 100% or more (in any air force).

[Jim Oxley]

RAF losses approximate 22,000. Of which 8,500 were in Bomber Command.

[Nokose]

Maybe Nikita can give an answer on this question for the eastern front and some one else the western front since JG52 did serve on both. If the German pilot attacked and the plane went down but forced landed and was later recovered to be placed back in service. Did that show up on the lost list or only the damaged? I've wondered how many of the forced landed aircraft were skipped over by researchers as not a valid claim.

[Nikita Egorov]

Michael,

I suppose there could be no exact answer on this. To my mind the majority of planes damaged in combats and later written off or repaired, were listed as German fighters victories.

Originally Posted by Nokose

Maybe Nikita can give an answer on this question for the eastern front and some one else the western front since JG52 did serve on both. If the German pilot attacked and the plane went down but forced landed and was later recovered to be placed back in service. Did that show up on the lost list or only the damaged? I've wondered how many of the forced landed aircraft were skipped over by researchers as not a valid claim.