Opinions Saught

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
Almost put this in the "General" section but it did not seem to fit.
So here goes.

"Free-French" only refers to those who escaped in 1940.
While
"French" applies to those who were ex-Vichy and turned after "Torch".

I had thought that the term "Free-French" applied to ALL French Forces who fought for the Allies up to the end of WW2 ?

Thanks,
Alex

[Bertrand H]

Hello Alex,


Free French are men who joined General de Gaulle before summer 1943. If we stay only with Aviation, they belong to the FAFL : Forces Aériennes Françaises Libres. After mid-1943 the generic term used was Forces Aériennes Françaises [en Grande Bretagne].

Nevertheless men who joined very early de Gaulle would continue to be called FAFL rather than FAF. For example spirit with n°341 or 340 sqdn were not the same than n°329 and n°345 which arrived in UK early january.

HTH

Bertrand

[CJE]

The merging between the ex-Vichy forces in Northern Africa and the Free French occured on 3 July 1943. From then on, whatever the theatre of operations, you must speak of the Forces aériennes françaises.
Apart from a few aircrews still retained in Spanish jails or having fled from Indochina to China, no one could be officially "Free French" after this date.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

The Free French forces were formed in Great Britain after the fall of France. All who enlisted into them were called "Free French".

Remember that in this period Free and Vichy French fought several times (Gabon in 1940, Syria in 1941, Reunion Island in 1942).

When Allied forces landed in French North Africa, after some days all the French colonies still under control of Vichy expect Indochina (where Japanese troops were based since 1940, but under nominal French control up to 9 March 1945 when Japanese attacked all French bases) rallied to the Allied, but not to De Gaulle.

The stuggle for French political primacy will last most of 1943, and end in De Gaulle favor. But up to 3 July 1943 there were still two different French military organisation fighting on Allied side, the Free French and the ex-Vichy French. By the way, the first between November 1942 and July 1943 tried actively to recruit members of the second. I don't have many example for airmen, but I know this was a major issue for the Army (in Tunisia where many men left units from North Africa to join the column Leclerc) and the Navy (for example with a good part of the crew of the battleship Richelieu "deserting" in New york to join Free French ships).

After July 1943 there was officialy only one French Air Force, but in fact former FAFL and Vichy units did not mix a lot. Few Free French airmen went to ex-Vichy units, more went the other way as ex-FAFL units will continue to take losses and need reinforcements.

But former FAFL members will keep their title of Free French, and for example the book "Aviateurs de la Liberté" that is listing all Free French airmen losses of the war will sometimes tell that an airman was part of a crew made of non FAFL-men, but not describe much them.

AFAIK there is no book listing all French airmen casualties during the war. A pity because in 1944-1945, former Free French airmen were not the bigger part of the French Air Force, either on global numbers or in casualties.

[Alex Smart]

Hello Bertrand, Chris and Laurent,

Thank you all for the replies.

I think that they have cleared up what to me was always a bit of a puzzle.

Your replies have been clear and pointed.

I can only wonder if this was the understanding of the British population in general as the war progressed or were they aware of the differences at the time ?

Thank you
Alex

[kaki3152]

Didn't the French also fight at Madagascar?

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by kaki3152

Didn't the French also fight at Madagascar?

I have only listed places where Free and Vichy French fought against each other. I had also forgotten Dakar in September 1940 when a Free French ship was hit and some men killed aboard.

Vichy French fought also against Allied (mainly British) in Madagascar and North Africa (Mers-el-Kebirs and Torch).

Vichy troops also fought in Indochina, against Japan in Sep 1940, against Thai in winter 40-41 and again agaisnt Japan in March 1945.