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  #31  
Old 6th June 2018, 21:22
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceMk11 View Post
Caldwell's invented DOB: 28/7/1911. This can be seen in his digitised service file (p 25) at the NAA.
Good evening Bruce,

thanks for your answer.
Have you noticed that wikipedia tells the story about the fake but nonetheless indicates the faked date of birth in the parentheses and in the profile ? ;-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Caldwell
It surprises me that one year made the difference between being accepted into fighter training and not being accepted.

Have a nice Thursday,

Michael
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  #32  
Old 9th June 2018, 14:31
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Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list

Hello there Gentlemen,

by courtesy of Jim and Russ I learned more about the locations of the kills of the P-40 aces over Australia&Oceania. Thus, I could complete my breakdown of top P-40 pilots by continent.

The top P-40 pilots on each continent were:
• Africa: Clive Caldwell 20,5 P-40 kills over Libya and Egypt (includes ½ kill during convoy patrol)
• Europe: Nikolai Zelenov 19,23 P-40 kills over the European part of Russia
• Asia: David Hill 13,25 P-40 kills over Malaysia, Myanmar and China
• Australia & Oceania: Ernest Harris 10 P-40 kills over Papua New Guinea
• America: John Cape and Kenneth Boomer 1 P-40 kill over Alaska each (and any other pilot who scored one P-40 kill over Alaska)

I wonder if the location of Clive Caldwell's convoy patrol kill (16Aug1941) can still be determined.

Have a nice weekend,

Michael
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  #33  
Old 9th June 2018, 15:47
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list

Quote:
Originally Posted by knusel View Post
Hello there Gentlemen,

by courtesy of Jim and Russ I learned more about the locations of the kills of the P-40 aces over Australia&Oceania. Thus, I could complete my breakdown of top P-40 pilots by continent.

The top P-40 pilots on each continent were:
• Africa: Clive Caldwell 20,5 P-40 kills over Libya and Egypt (includes ½ kill during convoy patrol)
• Europe: Nikolai Zelenov 19,23 P-40 kills over the European part of Russia
• Asia: David Hill 13,25 P-40 kills over Malaysia, Myanmar and China
• Australia & Oceania: Ernest Harris 10 P-40 kills over Papua New Guinea
• America: John Cape and Kenneth Boomer 1 P-40 kill over Alaska each (and any other pilot who scored one P-40 kill over Alaska)

I wonder if the location of Clive Caldwell's convoy patrol kill (16Aug1941) can still be determined.

Have a nice weekend,

Michael
The kill did not take place on 16 August, it took place on 18 August 1941 and was claimed as a damaged. Sgt. R T C Whittle claimed a probable in the same engagement. The convoy was off Ras-el-Mil
On the other side of the coin Hermann Foerster of 2./JG 27 shot down AK554 of Sgt. G M McCullough KIA (badly damaged, crashed on landing)
Location of Foerster's kill was E of Ras Azzaz

SO: LOCATION = Ras el Mil - Ras Azzaz sector

According to Kristen Alexander, the kill is recorded in 250 sqn's ORB as 19 August.

Sources:
Clive Caldwell Air Ace by Kristen Alexander
A History of the Mediterranean Air War vol 1 by Shores, Massimello and Guest

It has to be said....
...Making the outlay and buying some of the better sources would do you good, Michael, and it's not the first time you've been told that.
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  #34  
Old 9th June 2018, 16:21
John Beaman John Beaman is offline
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Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list

Nick it is not your provenance to make such statements. Either answer the point directly or do not. You are not the judge of whether anyone needs more references or whatever.

One more of these snotty comments is going to get you banned.
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  #35  
Old 9th June 2018, 16:28
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Beaman View Post
Nick it is not your provenance to make such statements. Either answer the point directly or do not. You are not the judge of whether anyone needs more references or whatever.

One more of these snotty comments is going to get you banned.
John,
In the course of answering the queries on this thread I even contacted Caldwell's biographer. That represents no mean effort in that you don't get to know these people without putting in considerable hard yards.
This is also what I am capable of and have done many times:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=51306

....Versus 800 posts worth of "please do my homework for me"

All yours mate. See you in six months.

Last edited by Nick Hector; 9th June 2018 at 17:20.
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  #36  
Old 10th June 2018, 12:56
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Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list

Good morning Gentlemen,

by the way, for my continent top aces I used the continental borders of today. I know they were of little significance in the days of WW2 but for my thought experiment I had to devise rules.

As I wrote in post32 the Caldwell kill whose location I'm most interested in is his shared Fiat G.50 on 16Aug1941.

I'll keep at it,

Michael
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  #37  
Old 10th June 2018, 13:09
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list

Quote:
Originally Posted by knusel View Post
Good morning Gentlemen,

by the way, for my continent top aces I used the continental borders of today. I know they were of little significance in the days of WW2 but for my thought experiment I had to devise rules.

As I wrote in post32 the Caldwell kill whose location I'm most interested in is his shared Fiat G.50 on 16Aug1941.

I'll keep at it,

Michael
p.230 of "Clive Caldwell Air Ace" by Kristen Alexander states half a FIAT G.50 "off Bardia" on 16 August.

p.245 of "A History of the Mediterranean Air War vol 1" does not credit him with any kind of victory on 16 August. Instead, a G.50 the next day, on 17 August during a convoy patrol.
PLUS
p.246 states a Bf109 on 18 August 1941 that was claimed as a damaged. Sgt. R T C Whittle claimed a probable in the same engagement. That particular convoy was off Ras-el-Mil
On the other side of the coin Hermann Foerster of 2./JG 27 shot down AK554 of Sgt. G M McCullough KIA (badly damaged, crashed on landing)
Location of Foerster's kill was E of Ras Azzaz

NOTHING for 16 August in that source....

Kristen Alexander is the BEST published source on Caldwell
Shores et al is the BEST published source on the Mediterranean air war
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  #38  
Old 12th June 2018, 11:37
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Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list

Good morning Gentlemen,

currently, I'm contemplating about David Hill's first kill which I read as being scored over "Rahang". I know only of a Rahang in Malaysia and I am surprised that the AVG operated so far south.

Have a nice Tuesday,

Michael
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  #39  
Old 12th June 2018, 17:13
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Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list

Soviet Tomahawk / Kittyhawk Aces

1. Pokryshev, Petr Afanasevich / Покрышев Пётр Афанасьевич = 14+6
2. Mikhalin, Mikhail Fedorovich / Михалин Михаил Федорович = 14+2
3. Litavrin, Sergei Gavrilovich / Литаврин Сергей Гаврилович = 13+0
4. Mitrokhin, Vasilii Borisovich / Митрохин Василий Борисович = 12+0
4. Repkin, Petr Afanasevich / Репкин Пётр Афанасьевич = 12+0
5. Zzotov, Viktor Alexeevich / Зотов Виктор Алексеевич = 11+11

Source:
Bykov, Mikhail: All aces of Stalin 1936-1953, Moscow: Yauza, 2014.
Быков, Михаил Юрьевич: Все асы Сталина 1936 – 1953 гг., Серия: Элитная энциклопедия ВВС. Такой книги еще не было!, Издательство: Яуза-Пресс, 2014. ISBN: 978-5-699-67789-4
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  #40  
Old 12th June 2018, 21:22
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Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list

Jan Safarik is a forum member ?
Cool !
I like your website very much, especially those topics that are rarely discussed elsewhere.

You're right, Mr Bykov ranks his aces by their individual kills.
For my own personal notes I chose to add the decimals of the shared kills to the individual kills. It's just more of my liking.

I think we can safely say that Nikolai Zelenov scored above Europe only because the German advance was stopped before it reached Asian ground. To find the locations of his 17+8sh P-40 kills on Russian maps was rather difficult for me because I'm not very good in Russian. I found all those 25 places in what is today Russia but I cannot exclude that there are places of the same name in countries like Belarus or Ukraine and that these places are the correct ones.
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/zh/zelenov_na.htm

Kind regards,

Michael
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