French Biplane ID Wanted

[musec04]

Hello



Currently for sale on ebay is a photo of a french biplane which hs H 227 beneath the wings its at :


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-foto-Be...sAAOSwuhNddSTj


could anyone please assist with the id of this machine. It looks in configuration as though it predates WW.II by some time. However the same seller has another photo for sale at :


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-foto-Be...oAAOSw985ddSQP

which appears to have the same machine with its wings removed in a line of other machines in a hanger which appears to have been bombed. The seller suggests Romilly as the location. So I assume the first photo may date from 1940?

Regards,

Clint

[Graham Boak]

The matriculation number gives you the period as late 30s-1940. I think both types are Hanriot trainers, the biplane might be an H28 or some other derivative of the H14. Sorry I can't be more precise.

[musec04]

Hello Graham,


Thanks for the response. I've been looking at photos since posting my question. I believe you're correct with your identification of the machine as a Hanriot. A HD.32 perhaps?


Also I'm intrigued by your reference to the matriculation is there a refrence work at all that you are aware of where I might pursue the matriculation further?


Regards,


Clint

[Graham Boak]

There's a table of Matricule Militaires in Chris Ehrengardt's last work: Camouflage et Marques de l'Aviation Francaise 1939-1945, published by Caraktere. However it only covers principal types and not Hanriots. Although the initial letter bears no relationship to the manufacturer's name, there are no other Hs...so perhaps a coincidence?

Perhaps an HD41? Something in that family, certainly

[edwest2]

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-foto-Be...oAAOSw985ddSQP

[musec04]

Hello Graham,


Looking at airhistory.org.uk/gy/reg_F-12.html I see that Hanriot HD.32 F-ANDZ was owned by the state and loaned toAero Club de l'Aube, Aube being the department to which Romilly belongs.Circumstantial admittedly, but might support my id as a HD.32. Not that I'm saying it definitely isn't a HD.41 because I'm not sure it isn't!


Regards,


Clint

[Graham Boak]

Could well be. I don't know the differences between the two aircraft, I suggested HD.41 because it was the last of the family to be produced and thus the likeliest to be still around in 1940.

[Stig Jarlevik]

That the aircraft is a Hanriot trainer is very evident.
Since the French buzz numbers were introduced in March 1925 and probably went at least roughly in number order (ie H900 was issued much later than H200), we can thus probably say this is a Hanriot from appx mid 1920s.

Of all French manufacturers Hanriot has received very little attention (I have not a single book about the company) and comparing the picture with what I have and then checking the internet the photo does not add up.

The best source available to me is what Charles Claveau published in his part 59 of Les Constructeures Francais 1919-45 (TdU) the most likely contender is the Hanriot HD-32. It was a derivative of the HD-14, it used an Anzani 110hp engine and it was ordered in series production for the Aviation Militaire. It was also built for civil use (I have some 50+ registrations F-ANDZ among them)

It does not look like the later HD-41 which seems to have had a wider undercarriage and a different engine

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hello Stig,


Thank you for your response.



As you say, there appears to be a dearth of information on Hanriot.


Would I be correct in assuming that it is possible for an impressed civilian machine to be given a military matriculation number following impressment. Or is it more likely that the machine shown H-227 was always a military machine?


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Clint

With regard to the early buzz number visible here I would say this is one of the original aircraft ordered by Aviation Militaire in the mid 1920s
During those years there were no impressments at all. The flow was in the opposite direction. Former military aircraft went on the civil register after being phased out of service use. Some service aircraft went back to the manufacturer for modifications and could get a civil registration, but that was mostly prototypes, not regular service aircraft as this one.

When WW 2 broke out, France impressed a large number of civil aircraft for second line duties, but as far as I can recall none of them received any buzz numbers, in fact most just received a military roundel but kept their former civil registration.

Cheers
Stig