Soviet Fighter Losses in Hungary 14 March 1945

[SCohen]

Were there were any Soviet losses in Hungary on 14 March 1945? Are there any books or online sources that you recommend for similar questions about soviet losses in Hungary and the Balkans? Thank you.

[HGabor]

Yes, there were... Way too many. Especially on March 14, 1945. This day eg. the soviet 17th Air Army lost 38 planes (9 Bostons, 20 IL-2s, etc.) alone. Then the 5th Air Army... My book lists them all by crews, serials, engine serials, etc. from soviet records:

http://www.miabonyunk.hu/cikkek/2014...zasu_cikkel_is

("Bostons in the Hungarian sky and soil" - 2013)

[SCohen]

Where can I find a copy?

I am most interested in whether the aircraft Forró Pál shot down 5 km south of Ozoral was American or Soviet. If I understand correctly he says the aircraft was a part of a group of American Mustangs, and it seems like he believed they were American, but also says that the plane had Soviet insignia. See below

"13 óra 08 perckor nyolc magyar Me–109-es szállt fel Veszprémből szabad vadászatra Ozora–Simontornya légterébe. 13 óra 50 perckor P–51-esek tüzet nyitottak a magyar vadászgépekre. Forró Pál hadnagy 14 órakor Ozorától délre 5 kilométerre egy Mustangot lelőtt.841

„Raj erejű kötelékünket 8–10 Mustang támadta meg. Forró Pál hadnagy földközelben (10–15 méteren) lelőtt egy Mustangot. A gépek szovjet felségjellel repülnek!”842

Forró Pál így emlékszik a légi harcra: „Mellettem foszforcsíkok húztak el, és a rádióban is hallottam a sercegést. Nagyot rántottam a botkormányon és éles fordulóba döntöttem a gépem, ekkor láttam meg néhány Mustangot szabályos rajkötelékben – mögöttem. Bekapcsoltam a metanolt és bal fordulóval emelkedtem 6 000 méterig. Két Mustang hazaindult, kettő rajtam maradt, de néhány forduló után kivált az egyik, rövid idő múlva hazaindult a másik is, nem törődve azzal, hogy utána eredhetek, otthagyott. Körbenéztem, de se saját, se ellenséges gépeket nem láttam és a Mustang után indultam. Az semmivel nem törődve nyugodtan repült déli irányba. Az első sorozatom nem talált és az amerikai a föld közelbe zuhanva keresett menedéket. Szinte a földet súroltuk, lőttem a sorozatokat, de azok fölötte suhantak el, gépemet meg-meg dobta a légcsavarszél, ami ilyen kis magasságban nagyon veszélyes lehet. Feltűnt előttünk egy út éppen keresztbe, az utat magas fák szegélyezték. Na, mondom, neked ezen át kell emelkedned. Egy hosszú sorozatot lőttem a Mustang felé, és ő ebbe belehúzta a gépet…”843"

[HGabor]

Yes, I know the story... It is believed that the plane was 1Lt. Lloyd W. Adamson's Mustang. The soviets lost many fighters, but further to the north around Székesfehérvár-Sárkeresztúr-Bicske. It is true, that two 611 IAP Yak-9Ms were also lost during the Székesfehérvár-N mission and went missing. They did not necessarily crash in the target area. But on March 14, 1945 the 288 IAD regiments were based at Kiskunlacháza, Budapest-S. The direction is not matching. Forró saw several battles with the Americans, he knew very well how the P-51s looked like. Perhaps he just misidentified the markings.

Gabor

[HGabor]

Brief translation: Hungarian fighters were on free hunting in the Ozora-Simontornya area when they were ambushed by about 8-10 P-51s. Dogfight developed towards south. Lt. Forró pulled up to ~6000 m with the chasing Mustangs behind him, who were not really interested in the combat (perhaps running low on gas) and left him one by one. Then Lt. Forró started to challenge the last P-51 by pressing him to the ground. At very low altitude he was just chasing him, when suddenly a tall tree-line crossed their way. This was a perfect trap: Lt. Forró fired a long burst to the top of the trees and the Mustang pulled up, right into it...

Gabor

[SCohen]

American documents say that at 1400, around this time American fighters spotted 7 enemy ME-109s, described as "greenish gray wings and fuselage with Yellow noses," at 46 40 N, 18 55 E, a coordinate near Paks, east of Ozora. Does that paint scheme match Lt. Forró's unit (is it 101st Home Air Defense Fighter Wing?) Thank you, this is all very interesting.

[HGabor]

I'd say yes, this painting scheme was typical on Hungarian fighters in March, 1945 and on.
Gabor

[kaki3152]

This site has Lt. Paul Murphy's MACR. Murphy was shot down along with Adamson. He attests that he and Adamson were brought down by AA.

https://www.ace1945.com/files/MACR_MaryMac001.pdf

[HGabor]

Let's say Adamson was ALSO hit by flak, but was NOT shot down by flak. It is a BIG difference! Murphy crashlanded at Bia-Farkashegy, Budapest-W,-NW (talked to a guy who took rubber from one of his wheels after the war for AC models, as Farkashegy was/is a sport airfield!), while Adamson at Ozora-S. Check the map, this is a HUGE difference! So it is impossible that Murphy saw Adamson's loss, he just saw that his plane was also damaged by flak - which turned out to be critical for him, but not for Adamson. Adamson was finally downed in a dogfight further south, enroute home. Perhaps because his plane was already damaged by flak and was flying at low altitude.

Gabor

[SCohen]

Also very interesting, I think that Murphy must have confused Tatabanya with Gyor. I severely doubt he got that far west (I could be wrong though), in his escape report he said he flew east 10 minutes before he crashed near Budaors. I find it very unlikely he chased the aircraft that far west of Gyor, but I suppose it is possible.Typical that this wasn't in the MACR for his March loss, instead in the MACR for his April loss.