FW 190 A-8, pilot Obgfr. Max-Ulrich Förster

[spektor]

Please help identify wreck FW 190 A.
The pilot was reportedly Obgfr. Max-Ulrich Förster, W.Nr.171612, "Schwarze 5", 2./JG 1.The color of the number is obviously not black.
Thank You. Lubo.

source:http://www.ibiblio.org/cizewski/sign...9/schmitt.html

[Jim P.]

Reportedly by who? The source you quote says "This plane appears to be Blue 5 from I Gruppe (Group). Crashed Enemy Aircraft Report Serial No. 253" from 20th September 1944 reports a "Fw 190 founded near Les Veys, 5+(blue), BMW 801, No. 310383, had carried 4 x 20 mm and 2 x 13 mm guns".

[ouidjat]

I believe the ID is wrong.
Förster was shot down "raum" Saint-Lô on 28 July 1944, in Black 5 WNr. correct.
...

This Blue 5 found near Les Veys is most probably WNr.730957, shot down on 20 June 1944, 4./JG2, flown by Uffz. Heinz Kartelmeier (KG). The report says "NW of Isigny (sic) which is in water ... but Les Veys is situated 4km West of Isigny. So, I believe it is this last machine.


Regards,
Franck.

[spektor]

Source, which lists FW 190 A-8 as the "schwarze 5" is FW 190 Volume Three 1944-1945, J. Richard Smith and Eddie J. Creek, page 707, , but there is only one record on June 20. 1944 in the loss list (7./JG 51).
Franck,thank You for answer. Which means (KG)?
Lubo.

[ouidjat]

Hey Lubo,
Which loss list are you referring to ?? Only one record on 20 June 1940? I have 21 Fw190s this day (in France) thanks to Michael Balss.
KG = PoW
WNr.730957, "Blaue 5" is given by www.absa39-45.asso.fr; JG2 Verlustliste.
Regards,
Franck.

[spektor]

Hi Franck,source is from FW 190 Volume Three 1944-1945, J. Richard Smith and Eddie J. Creek.
I donot open your internet link.
Thank You.

[spektor]

And correct link absa 1939-45 is:https://www.absa3945.com/
Lubo.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Lubo

The identity of the second photo of yours (in Smith/Creek's book p 707) is highly dubious. The original print says the photo (negative?) was "received on 7/28/44 from BPR" meaning, if WNr 171612, the aircraft would have been shot down, photographed, film processed and sent from this BPR on the same day and also received on that same day, whoever the recipient was.

Since I cannot say if the two photos are of one and the same aircraft, to ID colours from black and white photos are notoriously tricky, but as usual Franck's comments seems valid enough. At least the second photo now gets one month + to be processed all the way to the recipient on 28 July.

Is everyone else 100% confident the two photos shows one and the same aircraft?

Cheers
Stig

[spektor]

Hi Stig.
Photo on the book FW 190 Smith and Creek part 3 page 707 is marked incorrect.
FW 190 A-8 is really not "schwarze 5" as are you noticed.
It is probably "blaue 5",as bring info about this plane Franck.
Lubo.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Yes Lubo

That is the whole point with Franck's comments.
Also the point with my comments.....

The real point, is Franck 100% correct or is there any other person who has something else to contribute?

Cheers
Stig