Gabszewicz in France

[keith A]

Found this....

"Le GCMP effectue quant à lui une première mission vers 12h20 avec une première patrouille de 8 appareils, dont le commandant, le Lt Gabscewicz, attaque un des 9 He 111 présents.-L’allemand largue ses bombes, mais le polonais ne le lâche pas jusqu’à sa chute. Finalement, cette victoire est accordée au Lt Gabscewicz en coopération avec le S/Lt Radomski à cause de la mêlée générale.
-Un deuxième bombardier est abattu par le Lnt Gabszewicz.

En début d’après-midi, de nouveaux bombardiers survolent le terrain, entraînant le décollage de 5 MS. 406 du GCMP. Le S/L Kalpas en abat un (crédité officiellement). Puis, après 3 passes, voit son moteur touché et descend donc. Il tente un atterrissage de fortune, mais son avion prend feu après le capotage de l’avion ; Kalpas sera carbonisé."

Does this mean that Gabszewicz should be credited with 2 victories (under the French system). on this date?

regards

Keith

[Teresa Maria]

I don't know the French system, but the text says that the victory was attributed to Gabszewicz in cooperation with Radomski, because of the general commotion. The second bomber was shot down by Gabszewicz.

[Nick Beale]

I don't know the French victory credit system, so can't help with that, but if you're just asking for a translation:

As for the GCMP, it flies a first mission at around 12.20 hrs., with a first patrol of 8 machines, the commandant among them. Lt. Gabscewicz, attacks one of the 9 He 111 present. The German jettisons his bombs but the Pole doesn't let go of him until he goes down. In the end this victory is accredited to Lt. Gabscewicz in cooperation with S/Lt Radomski by reason of the general mêlée.

A second bomber is shot down by Lt. Gabszewicz.

[Col Bruggy]

Hello,

A. The All-Polish Fighter Units.

(2.) The Fighter Exercise Squadron (GMCP).

On 1 June (1940), at about 13:00 hours the GMCP scrambled eight MS 406s to intertcept an approaching raid. Lt Gabszewicz led the main group of six fighters, with Radomski and Poniatowski following a minute later*. The Moranes, still climbing, encountered nine He 111s north of Lyon and had to attack without height advantage. Gabszewicz was the first to come close enough to fire and selected one of the bombers of the last trio. The Heinkel dived into the ground, its crash being witnessed by other pilots. Moments later Baranski and Radomski accounted for another He 111 and were subsequently credited with 1/2 each.

* Radomski's report (IPMS, Lot.A IV, 2/1d-4)

See:
The Polish Air Force At War The Official History Vol.1 1939-1943.
Cynk,Jerzy B.
Atglen:Schiffer,1998.
p.117.

Col.

[keith A]

Forgot to give my source...

http://forum.aviation-ancienne.fr/t7369-1er-juin-1940

regards

Keith

[focusfocus]

The french system consists of awarding a complete victory to each pilot individually even if the victory is shared,which will be counted as shared in the unit.
Example:
01/06/40:a He.111 for unity "A"
shared between five pilotesilot A,pilot B,pilot C,pilot D,pilot E
individual palmares:
pilot A = one victory
pilot B = one victory
pilot C = one victory
pilot D = one victory
pilot E = one victory

According to Bartlomiej Belcarz ( les aviateurs polonais en france en 1940),here are the facts:
01/06/1940
A.Gabszewicz one He.111 (Seyssel,in reality Seyssuel 20 km sud of Lyon): 12.20-13.00 hour
W.Baranski one He.111 shared : 12.20-13.00 hour
J.Radomski one He.111 shared :12.20-13.00 hour

R. Kalpas one He.111 :13.45 hour

For the french:different version
A.Gabszewicz one 111 ( Seyssuel) 12.20-13.00 hour
W.Baranski one 111 prob.
J.Radomski one 111 prob.

R. Kalpas one 111 prob. 13.45 hour

german losse:
He.111 of 1./KG.55 20 KM sud of Lyon
Lt Hans Will(FF)
Obfw Oskar Dettke(Bo)
Fw Bruno Marquart(Bf)
Gefr Jacob Getz (Bordsch)
Uffz Alfred Lohr(Bf)

michel

[Teresa Maria]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

I don't know the French victory credit system, so can't help with that, but if you're just asking for a translation:

As for the GCMP, it flies a first mission at around 12.20 hrs., with a first patrol of 8 machines, the commandant among them. Lt. Gabscewicz, attacks one of the 9 He 111 present. The German jettisons his bombs but the Pole doesn't let go of him until he goes down. In the end this victory is accredited to Lt. Gabscewicz in cooperation with S/Lt Radomski by reason of the general mêlée.

A second bomber is shot down by Lt. Gabszewicz.

I didn't know that the word mêlée existed in English too.
By the way, 'Gabszewicz' and 'Gabscewicz', as it's spelt in the text, were one and the same person.

[keith A]

Fantastic detail! I did wonder why Radomski was sharing a victory when most accounts give him as part of the Wyrwicki flight...rather than GCMP.

So..if we follow the French account Gabszewicz shared a "probable" victory with Radomski?

Or....

regards

Keith

[focusfocus]

According to the french,final assessment of the victories of the fighter squadron of the DIAP (Centrum Wyszkolenia Lotnictwa) of Lyon:

A.Gabszewicz one He.111 "sùr"
W.Baranski one He.111 "prob."
J.Radomski one He.111 "prob."


No victorie shared with Radomski

according Belcarz (2015):
patrol of Gabszewicz:four planes
Gabszewicz
Baranski
Radomski
Mierzwa

report of Radomski (writting the 04/07/1945),six planes
the four mentioned above
Poniatowski
unknow

michel

[keith A]

Reading the Belcarz book "Fighting Colours" I thought I saw the phrase that the GCMP did not form...however was that the DIAP escadrille of Lyon? Radomskis report indicates that it did exist albeit in the process of formation, and that Gabszewicz was flying an Ms406 when he claimed his second victory of the war.

It seems Baranski and Radomski shared a victory (perhaps confirmed), and Gabszewicz claimed a second?

This adjusts the official (if there is one) tally of claims in France. Given its size (c60) in one month I suspect it may include "probables" or an aggregation of shared claims as complete victories?

Keith