Information on Soviets losses

[focusfocus]

Hello

On 10/03/43:soviets losses towards 8.00h in the region of Alakurtti
four Pe-2 (80BAP)
five hurricanes(152 IAP)
two Il-2 (828 SchAP)

18/03/43:soviets losses towards 5.15h in the region of Alakurtti
four Il-2 (828 ShAP)
four hurricanes (152 IAP)
one I-16
one Lagg
one P-40

and towards 13.00h Murmanbahn
three hurricanes (966 IAP)

Which Staffeln and pilots of JG5 are responsible for these very big losses?
Absolutely nothing in the Osprey N°124 and little concrete things in the Mombeek's book (vol.2).
But does anyone among you have more specific information,or nothing is known as usual with JG5?

thank's in advance

michel

[natttuppen]

18.03.43 Fw Heinz Beyer of 8/JG 5 claimed in Il 2, Lt Horst Berger of 8/JG 5 claimed a P 40. Time 16.30 and 16.35 respectively.
Source: Dr Jochen Prien et al: Die Jagdfliegerverbände etc...Teil 12/I

[Nokose]

Michel, there is a book in the works on the air war in the Murmansk region that will be coming out by Brian Cull. This will have a lot of your answers.

[Brian]

Hi guys

Thanks for the plug, Nokose, but my book covers 1941-1942 period only.

Cheers
Brian

[HGabor]

One of the two 7 VA, 828 ShAP IL-2 losses on March 10, 1943 was:

IL-2m3, S/N: 1872932
Tactical number: '4'
Pilot: ml.Lt. Constantin Mikhailovich Kotlyarevskii
Gunner: Sgt. Evgenii Petrovich Mukhin KIA

Downed in dogfight after attacking Alakurtti airfield, recovered in 1975, now it is on display as a memorial. Not much, but I hope it helps a bit.

Gabor

[focusfocus]

Thank's guys for your efforts.

By deduction and analysis,perhaps, but perhaps the 4 and 5/JG5?,but in fact,it seems we never have the answer.

It's frustating to known some Soviet losses(verifiable and verified) but not the opponents!unlike other situations such as the 13/3/43:17 claims for JG5 and only two verifiable Soviet losses!

I have not identified the I-16,Lagg and P-40 (18/03)

michel

[Carl-Fredrik Geust]

I have recorded following Soviet losses at Alakurtti on the days indicated:

10 March 1943:

Pe-2 (80 BAP, 261 SAD): Capt Popov, Pavel Fedorovich; Capt Popov, Konstantin Nikolayevich and Lt Brizhatyuk, Boris Safronovich - all MIA.

Pe-2 (80 BAP, 261 SAD): Sn.Lt Moskalets, Vladimir Sergeyevich; Sn.Lt Batov, Anatoliy Sergeyevich and kr-ts Babinkin, Aleksei Sergeyevich. Batov and Babinkin apparently KIA, but at least Moskalets became POW (possibly also Babinkin), and was later dispatched to Germany, where he joined VVS ROA (Vlasov´s Air Force).
Moskalets (re-) defected to the Soviet side on 3-4 July 1944 (see my post of 7 Jan 2017, which remained without answer: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=47041)

Pe-2(80 BAP, 261 SAD): Jn.Lt. Skvortsov, Vasiliy Ivanovich (KIA)

Pe-2 (80 BAP, 261 SAD):star Kupenko, Semen Seenovich (KIA)
- the other crew members of these two last mentioned Pe-2 apparently survived (Skvortsov and Kupenko were possibly in the same Pe-2 aircraft)

I have got only one Hurricane (152 IAP, 259 IAD) shot down on 10 March 1943 at Alakurtti, pilot Serov survived.

Five Il-2s were lost (all 828 ShAP):
- personal losses: Sn.Lt. Kukushkin, Nikolai Pavlovich; Lt. Korotkov, Nikolai Ivanovich; Jn.Lt Levitskiy, Zinoviy Abramovich and Jn.Ser. Talalayev, V.G.; Sn.Lt. Krivosheyev, Viktor Pavlovich; Jn.Lt. Kotlyaryevskiy, Konstantin Mikhajlovich (WIA) and Ser. Mukhin, Yevgeniy Petrovich in tactical "4", c/n 1872932 (as mentioned by Gabor; the monument Il-2 is erected at the factory in Samara). All other Il-2 crew members KIA.

Losses at Alakurtti 18 March 1943:
Three Hurricanes (152 IAP, 259 IAD): star Kharlamov, Nikolai Sergeyevich and star Zagorodnikov, Ivan Sergeyevich (both KIA), Jn.Lt. Ryabchenko, M.N. survived.
Two Hurricanes (966 IAP, 122 IAD PVO) - pilots so far unknown.

609 IAP lost one Hurricane (pilot OK).
In 20 GIAP one P-40E crash-landed at Luostari (Petsamo/Pechenga), which however is very far from Alakurtti!!

Likewise, 197 IAP lost one I-16 at Gremyakha, which is also rather far away from Alakurtti.

I have no Il-2 losses this day - is the date correct??

Carl

[focusfocus]

08/03/43?? that day,I have only a hurricane of 760°IAP Sm N.A.Sinitsyn(K) reason?
You mean 18/03/43?
that day I have:four of 152°IAP
N° 519
N°545
N°938
BN823

Sgt G M Sukhov of 152°IAP (belly landing)

for the P-40 of 3./20.gwIAP (JLt M.E.Bytschkow) probably by Horst Berger(Petsamo)
one Il-2 of 17.gwSchAP (Kpt.Peretjagin) probably by Heinz Beyer(Petsamo)

for Il-2 of 828th ShAP,maybe mistake of dates and confusion between 10/03 and 18/03

michel

[Carl-Fredrik Geust]

Sorry for the misprínt in my post above ("8" instead of "18" March) - now corrected!

BTW, Lt Nikolai Aleksandrovich Sinitsyn in Hurricane BE559 (2./760 IAP) force-landed at Pälkäjärvi 8 March 1943 and became POW in Finland. His aircraft was only slightly damaged, and was evacuated by Finnish troops.