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  #1  
Old 19th January 2012, 14:49
Julian Julian is offline
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Georg Schneider 3/JG21 StaffelKapitan

Hello everyone once again I was wondering if anyone might be able to help me concerning research for a chapter of a soon to be published book.

"On June 27, 1940 No.82 Squadron took part in a mission to bomb targets in Germany. Around 16.15 hours their aircraft appeared over Soesterberg airfield. Immediately, the fighters of No.3 staffel/Jagdgeschwader 21 took off to intercept the intruders. During the ensuing dogfight 26-year old Oberleutnant Georg Schneider shot down Blenheim R3731. It was his seventh and final victory. In the meantime, Sergeant Andrew Clark the gunner on board Blenheim R3731 fired at one of the opponents, bringing down the aircraft of Oberleutnant Schneider. The German fighter crashed near Zeist killing Schneider who was buried the next day with military honours at the Grebbeberg. He now rests in the German war cemetery in Ysselsteyn, Limburg.
I would very much like to hear from anyone who might be in contact with relatives of Georg Schneider. Or indeed anyone who can shed some more light on this individual, perhaps who has photographs of him or the specific Me 109 he flew for this comabt. I do apologise I dont have code or WNr as yet as I have only just started this research work.
Many thanks Julian
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Old 19th January 2012, 15:24
Doug Stankey Doug Stankey is offline
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Re: Georg Schneider 3/JG21 StaffelKapitan

I'm afraid that all we have about this fellow is:

SCHNEIDER, Georg. 15.07.39 Oblt., TDY from I./JG 1 to I./JG 21. 26.05.40 Oblt., Staka 3./JG 21. 27.06.40 KIA – shot down by a Blenheim and crashed near Zeist.


Tom Kracker's website has a bit more:

Schneider, Georg. - Oblt. - Born:7/5/1913 - 7 victories - Stfkpt. 3./JG-21 (9/39, later bacame III/JG-54), Stfkpt 9/JG-54 (repl by Oblt Bob)Bf 109D, Bf 109E-1 "Yellow ~"(lost)EK 1 & 2, Fighter Operational ClaspKIA 27 June, 1940 by Blenheim return fire over Soesterberg, Holland. His E-1 crashed near Zeist Holland. Buried Ysselsteyn, Block CC/4/87. One known victory, his 1st, a Polish P-24 on 1 September, 1939 at Markl Poland. His 2nd, a Polish high wing P-24, on 6 September, 1939, 72 km north north west of Warsaw, in the Ciechanow area. His 3rd was a Belgian Gloster Gladiator fighter downed 10 May, 1940, at Tongeren, northwest of Liege. Another victory, a Hurricane "P-2616" of RAF No. 607 Sq., referrered to as his 2nd(?!) on 12 May, 1940. (the 1st was the Gladiator...may have 2 Schultz's, this one with I/JG-21 under Ultsch. See Pg 19-20, Weal bk.), at Jodoigne, SE of the Belgian capital. His 5th, a Morane 406 north of Cambrai, 25 May, 1940. Referred to as victory no. 6, another Morane 406 at Cambrai on 26 may, 1940. Another, his 7th, a Blenheim 5 km S. Soesterberg 6/27/40, the day of his death.


That's about all we can say about this fellow. We hope that this helps.

HLdZ
DGS
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  #3  
Old 19th January 2012, 17:07
Julian Julian is offline
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Re: Georg Schneider 3/JG21 StaffelKapitan

Hi it certainly does help, thank you very much this is greatly appreciated....Julian
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Old 19th January 2012, 17:29
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Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
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Re: Georg Schneider 3/JG21 StaffelKapitan

I had an account from Sgt A A Stanley and have the NVM for Schneider but never contacted any relatives of latter as it is a common name. I linked this loss with the loss of 4 x 235 Sqn ac on the same day and wrote a series of articles on the day's actions
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Old 19th January 2012, 19:52
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Georg Schneider 3/JG21 StaffelKapitan

Chris,

Where can I find copies of the articles that you wrote on that day's actions?

Regards,
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Old 19th January 2012, 20:01
Julian Julian is offline
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Re: Georg Schneider 3/JG21 StaffelKapitan

Most interesting Chris. I should add the Blenheim has been excavated or at least searched and hopefully its only a matter of time before Schneiders Me 109 crash sit is located...so I thought it would make a fascinating tale. My contacts have traced the son of one of the woodsmen who were involved and also some wartime images of the crash site.....so hopefully I should at least have something. Case in question is that it may well be a chapter without photos of George Schneider or the Blenheim crew.....but nonetheless a few scattered pieces of metal in a pine forest serves as a poignant memorial to these brave young lads and thats the point I want to make....cheers Jules
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Old 19th January 2012, 20:07
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Georg Schneider 3/JG21 StaffelKapitan

Julian,

We carry this loss in the EoE Luft loss DB as:

"June 27, 1940: 3./JG21 Messerschmitt Bf109E-1. Shot down by return fire during attack on No.82 Squadron Blenheim and crashed north-east of Zeist 3.20 p.m. FF Oberlt Georg Schneider (Staffelkapitän) killed. Aircraft Yellow 1 + 100% write-off."

I have a poor quality photo of his Yellow 1 in our EoE Photo DB, as part of a line up of fighters from his unit (3./JG21), probably taken about April, 1940, at Mönchengladbach AF Germany. It carries the StaKap pennant on the radio mast. It was shared with me by someone else, so I can't provide a copy without getting their permission, but this can probably be accomplished if this is important. Based on the markings and unit insignia carried by this unit, it could well be both the same a/c, carrying the same markings and camouflage carried on his a/c the day he was shot down. This a/c would have had to have survived the Western Campaign, but this is certainly possible. You'll note in our loss entry that there is no reported W.Nr., as these were not generally documented in Luftwaffe records at this early date.

His StaKap a/c in 1939 is well known from a different photo, and has been documented with a photo and two different color profiles, but I don't think that you're interested in that one.

Regards,
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Last edited by Larry Hickey; 19th January 2012 at 20:52.
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Old 19th January 2012, 20:13
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Re: Georg Schneider 3/JG21 StaffelKapitan

Larry: 'Air Mail' and 'Flypast' if my memory serves me right
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Old 19th January 2012, 20:16
rob van den nieuwendijk rob van den nieuwendijk is offline
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Re: Georg Schneider 3/JG21 StaffelKapitan

Hello all,

From an unpublished manuscript "de kust onder vuur" written by me about 14 years ago (sorry in Dutch):

Een van de aanvallers was de Blenheim IV, R3731, gevlogen door Pilot Officer Ralph Percy van 82 Squadron, die van Watton was opgestegen voor een aanval op doelen in noordwest Duitsland.[i] In de namiddag verschenen boven Soesterberg drie Blenheims, die boven het vliegveld rondcirkelden. Direct startten na de zichtmelding enkele Me 109’s van de 3./JG 21, waaronder Staffelkapitän Oberleutnant Georg Schneider. Hij schoot de R3731 neer, maar werd bij de aanval door staartschutter Sergeant Andrew Clark beschoten en getroffen. Beide toestellen stortten neer in de omgeving van Zeist. Schneider kwam - als eerste piloot van JG 54 in Nederland - om het leven en werd de volgende dag op de begraafplaats van Soesterberg met militaire eer, in aanwezigheid van de gehele Gruppe, begraven. Oberleutnant Richard Hausmann nam de leiding van de 3e Staffel over.

Oberleutnant Georg Schneider was vanaf 13 juli 1939 Staffelkapitän van de 3./JG 21.[ii] Op 1 september 1939 claimde hij een P-24 boven Polen en op 7 september een tweede. Op 10 mei claimde Schneider een Gladiator boven België. Twee dagen later een Hurricane en op 25 en 26 mei twee Franse Moranes in de omgeving van Cambrai.[iii] Als gevolg van het luchtgevecht op 26 mei moest hij op St. Pol een noodlanding maken.[iv] Schneider bleef ongedeerd. Hij had met zes overwinningen de topscore van I./JG 21. In Nederland vond hij zijn waterloo.

Van de R3731 kwamen de piloot Pilot Officer Percy en schutter Sergeant Clark om het leven. Beiden werden in Zeist begraven. De waarnemer, Sergeant A. Stanley, verliet op enkele honderden meters hoogte het brandende toestel en kwam behouden aan de grond. Zes bosarbeiders uit Zeist verleenden Stanley hulp. De burgers S. uit Zeist, U. uit Utrecht en M. uit Zeist hielpen hem van zijn brandende parachute af en brachten hem in een in de nabijheid gelegen schaftkeet. Intussen hadden Duitse en Nederlandse militairen maatregelen genomen om het terrein waarop het toestel was neergekomen af te zetten. De bosarbeider H., die zag dat er gevaar voor de Britse piloot dreigde, gaf deze de raad zich voorlopig ergens in het bos te verbergen. De arbeiders De J. en Van K. begaven zich op behoedzame wijze met Stanley in de richting van Austerlitz in de hoop geen Duitsers te ontmoeten. Toen zij evenwel toch een Duitse officier tegenkwamen, die hen vroeg, of zij een Britse vlieger hadden gezien, antwoordden zij ontkennend en brachten de Duitser op een vals spoor. Inmiddels had de arbeider U. de vliegerkleding van Stanley verborgen en ook alles opgeruimd. Arbeider S. nam de vlieger mee naar zijn woning, verkleedde hem met een van zijn eigen kledingstukken en gaf hem bij zijn vertrek nog een gulden mee. Een kilometer bracht S. Stanley op weg naar Utrecht. Later bleek Stanley de trein te hebben genomen. Hij werd gearresteerd en overleefde de oorlog in een krijgsgevangenkamp. De arbeiders werden door de Duitse politie opgepakt en de zaak kwam op 25 juli voor het Kriegsgericht. Tegen hoofdverdachte S. was tien jaar geëist. Hij werd veroordeeld tot drie jaar tuchthuisstraf. Vier anderen kregen twee jaar, terwijl drie jaar tegen hen was geëist. De laatste werd vrijgesproken, wegens gebrek aan bewijs. Bij de motivering zei de president, dat voor dit geval de laagste straffen had gegeven. Men begreep dat de arbeiders in hun spontaniteit gehandeld hadden. Zij moesten als voorbeeld gesteld worden voor anderen, die zich misschien er toe zouden laten ‘misleiden Engelsen te helpen’, indien de Duitse politie hen wilde arresteren. Het was de eerste keer in Nederland dat de Duitsers aan pilotenhelpers straffen oplegden.[v]

[i] PRO: AIR 27/681 Operational Record Book 82 Squadron.

[ii] Prien c.s., Teil 1, 173, 412.

[iii] BAMA: RL 10/591 Das JG 27 des VIII. Fliegerkorps im Frankreichfeldzug 1940, door Generalmajor a.D. Max Ibel d.d. 25 juni 1953; Hans Ring en Werner Girbig, JG 27, 22, 29.

[iv] Prien c.s., Teil 3, 197-198.

[v] Gebasseerd op verschillende krantenartikelen in Nederlandse dagbladen in de zomer van 1940: Hulpverleening aan een Engelsche vlieger, vijf arbeiders tot gevangenisstraf veroordeeld (26 juli 1940), Hulpverleening aan een Engelschman, de uitspraak (26 juli 1940), Hulpverleening aan een Engelschman, tegen de twee hoofdverdachten 10 en 8 jaar geëischt (25 juli 1940), Boscharbeider hielp Engelschen piloot, tien jaar gevangenisstraf geëischt (25 juli 1940).

(copyright: Rob van den Nieuwendijk)


Sorry, currently due to lack of time unable to translate.

Best regards,
Rob


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  #10  
Old 20th January 2012, 12:12
Julian Julian is offline
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Re: Georg Schneider 3/JG21 StaffelKapitan

Larry Chris and Rob, just to say thank you for all this information, its certainly something to pick through. Larry I would be very interested in obtaining permission to use that photograph of Schneiders Me 109 in a line up that you mention, if that could be organised. It certainly seems that a photograph of the man himself will be an elusive issue. Cheers Julian
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