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Old 8th January 2019, 17:14
Christophe Cony Christophe Cony is offline
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Pierre Clostermann's victories

Hi all

I am the editor of French magazine AVIONS.
For those who are interested, I will publish in a few days a big article (42 pages) in which I detail every air and ground victories of Pierre Clostermann during WW2.
In writing this article I was able to examine his TWO logbooks, including the Tempest one, the ORBs of all his squadrons and the existing combat reports.

This article is the result of more than ten years of research.
Many surprises, but also many mysteries solved!


Christophe Cony
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Old 14th January 2019, 23:26
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: Pierre Clostermann's victories

Cher Monsieur Cony,

Firstly congratulations for the magnifique work onto the AVIONS Serie and also for this very very interesting topic.

Some years ago another French Historian made a similar work but was fined judicially, in France. On your case, you seem to have had a good relationship to have access to his RAF Logbooks...

I became a civilian comercial pilot partially due to Reading Clostermann and Jubelin while I was 14 years you can imagine the Gratitude I owe to them and to this kind of Reading. Of course, with the years, "Le Grand Cirque" was desmistified after Reading other books and cross-checking informations, like you did on the ORB(s).

For Brazilian researchers like myself, Clostermann being born in Curitiba (not a small town like you said onto the PDF accessible part of the article but the Capital of PARANÁ State (we are like France divided on several small States, similar to your Departments - I lived 4 years onto Départment 69 - Rhone Alpes, for instance), we do consider him a Brazilian-French and not a a most welcomed article.

So, do you believe that, after all your work, that there would be a possibility of a FUTUR revision of "Le Grand Cirque" with the "correct" facts with the aval of the Clostermann Family???

I am writing a major book tribute to the "Brazilians in RAF Service, 1939-45" and Clostermann do have a chapter, where some of his claims were matched too (or at least I tried to) and some information from his war-memories dismistified...but I was advised to not publish due to the judicial problem with the French Historian who was fined some 100.000 Francs (or plus) by Clostermann himself (the Judges I mean).

Sincerely I do believe that most of us (historians - professionals or "sprogs" like me) are just trying to match add details, not to criticize or judge the acts of pilots who died and did their job (overclaiming or not).

Congratulations again and I shall buy avidly this article and magazine. Keep going and preserving the deeds of a Generation and a Breed of Men (and Women) that Mankind will see NO MORE.

Most humbly yours,
Adriano S. Baumgartner, ASV 00.344
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Old 15th January 2019, 18:02
Stephen M. Fochuk Stephen M. Fochuk is offline
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Re: Pierre Clostermann's victories

Looking forward to reading it. You might want to move this to the Books and Magazine section of the forum.

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Old 15th January 2019, 19:00
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Alfred.MONZAT Alfred.MONZAT is offline
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Re: Pierre Clostermann's victories

Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner View Post
we do consider him a Brazilian-French and not a French-Brazilian...
Are you suggesting in France we consider him French-Brazilian ? Because not. He is born in Brazil. Period.
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