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  #1  
Old 8th January 2019, 23:45
Tim O. Tim O. is offline
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LaGG-5 shot down by Hs 129 0n 19 March 1944

I am researching the Flugbuch of Oberfeldwebel Franz Birnbaum of 10.(Pz.)/SG 9 and on 19th March 1944 he records a flight out of Proskurov between 09:40 and 10:10 when he shot down in flames a LaGG-5.

Does anyone have any further information on this claim?

For background, Birnbaum records being attacked by LaGG-5s on two occasions in the previous days. Between July 1943 and April 1944 Birnbaum claimed 11 tanks destroyed (10 T-34s and 1 'assault gun of the new type', which from the date I think would be an SU-85), in addition to several trucks and horse-drawn vehicles.

Any help on the LaGG claim would be much appreciated.
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Looking for any information or documents relating to:
Alfred Schmittka 5./KG 54; Josef Harmeling 4.(Schlacht)/LG 2; Wilhelm Gaul 1./106, 2./906 & III./KG 40; Karl Müller I./KG 2; Werner Breese 5.(F)/122
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Old 22nd January 2019, 19:43
ZhekaB ZhekaB is offline
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Re: LaGG-5 shot down by Hs 129 0n 19 March 1944

Hello, Tim!
Your question is a bit complicated. There is not enough information about the combats of La-5 and Hs 129 near Proskurov. All I managed to find:
In this area, operated 2nd Air Army VVS. La-5 were at 5th, 10th IAKs and in 19 IAP. 19.03.44 10th IAK lost 3 fighters (types unknown) and 19 IAP lost 2 La-5. But the reasons for their losses are not specified. Unfortunately, more details on the “Pamyat” site are not visible.
From the interesting, according to the 2nd Air Army documents:
18.03.44 there was an air combat between 4 La-5 of 19 IAP and 4 Ju 88 in the area of ​​Kalinovtsy. By the details of the combat, I can suppose that the Ju-88 is actually Hs 129 (they formed a defensive circle). During the combat, cptn. Shchebeko went with one “Ju 88” in a frontal attack and shot him down, but in this frontal attack he himself also got a light damage from “Ju 88”. In total, the La-5 pilots in this combat claimed 2 Ju-88.
And on 17.03.44 there was a big combat over the Proskurov, when IL-2 and La-5 attacked an airfield. Without a loss, 2 Me 109, 1 Me 110 and Ju 88 were claimed. Me 110 and Ju 88 could also be Hs 129.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 23:38
Tim O. Tim O. is offline
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Re: LaGG-5 shot down by Hs 129 0n 19 March 1944

Thank you very much for this Zheka.

The same pilot also records being attacked by 'LaGG-5s' during two of his five missions on 17th March 1944. He does not mention any contact with fighters during his five missions on 18th March. He had three missions on 19th and claimed his LaGG-5 during the third of these.

Thanks for the help!
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Looking for any information or documents relating to:
Alfred Schmittka 5./KG 54; Josef Harmeling 4.(Schlacht)/LG 2; Wilhelm Gaul 1./106, 2./906 & III./KG 40; Karl Müller I./KG 2; Werner Breese 5.(F)/122
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Old 23rd January 2019, 03:48
HGabor HGabor is online now
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Re: LaGG-5 shot down by Hs 129 0n 19 March 1944

I have info only about the loss of an IL-2 on March 19, 1944: IL-2m3, S/N: 304244, engine No.: 4590804, L. A. Frolovichev and Dorofeev were KIFA at Dyadkovo-S, 10 km. (2 UTAE)
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Old 23rd January 2019, 11:04
ZhekaB ZhekaB is offline
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Re: LaGG-5 shot down by Hs 129 0n 19 March 1944

The real date of air combat 4 La-5 vs 4 "Ju 88", that I pointed as 18.03. could also be 17.03. because description of the fight date is 17.03. But 2 VA's combat journal reports 2 Ju 88 downed by 19 IAP at 18.03. and no one Ju 88 at 17.03. So I suppose that correct date is 18.03. Until there is no combat lournal of 19 IAP, its difficult to prove it.
Other losses of 2nd VA 19.03.44 are: 1 Yak of 331 IAD, 1 Il-2 of 5th ShAK and 2 Pe-2 of 202 BAD.

Tim, may I Know, where did Franz Birnbaum fly in october 1944? Southern Poland I believe?
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Old 23rd January 2019, 19:16
Tim O. Tim O. is offline
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Re: LaGG-5 shot down by Hs 129 0n 19 March 1944

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhekaB View Post
The real date of air combat 4 La-5 vs 4 "Ju 88", that I pointed as 18.03. could also be 17.03. because description of the fight date is 17.03. But 2 VA's combat journal reports 2 Ju 88 downed by 19 IAP at 18.03. and no one Ju 88 at 17.03. So I suppose that correct date is 18.03. Until there is no combat lournal of 19 IAP, its difficult to prove it.
Other losses of 2nd VA 19.03.44 are: 1 Yak of 331 IAD, 1 Il-2 of 5th ShAK and 2 Pe-2 of 202 BAD.

Tim, may I Know, where did Franz Birnbaum fly in october 1944? Southern Poland I believe?
Hi Zheka

Thanks for this additional information.

Birnbaum was shot down and killed on 5th April 1944 so would not be in the records for October 1944.
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Tim O.

Looking for any information or documents relating to:
Alfred Schmittka 5./KG 54; Josef Harmeling 4.(Schlacht)/LG 2; Wilhelm Gaul 1./106, 2./906 & III./KG 40; Karl Müller I./KG 2; Werner Breese 5.(F)/122
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Old 23rd January 2019, 19:17
Tim O. Tim O. is offline
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Re: LaGG-5 shot down by Hs 129 0n 19 March 1944

Quote:
Originally Posted by HGabor View Post
I have info only about the loss of an IL-2 on March 19, 1944: IL-2m3, S/N: 304244, engine No.: 4590804, L. A. Frolovichev and Dorofeev were KIFA at Dyadkovo-S, 10 km. (2 UTAE)
Thank you HGabor.
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Best wishes
Tim O.

Looking for any information or documents relating to:
Alfred Schmittka 5./KG 54; Josef Harmeling 4.(Schlacht)/LG 2; Wilhelm Gaul 1./106, 2./906 & III./KG 40; Karl Müller I./KG 2; Werner Breese 5.(F)/122
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Old 24th January 2019, 09:03
ZhekaB ZhekaB is offline
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Re: LaGG-5 shot down by Hs 129 0n 19 March 1944

Thank you, Tim. I thought if there is a flightbook, he could pass the war..
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